Revised Monk - Monk fans please critique

redkobold · Apr 21, 2003

I am looking for some input.

I have been unhappy with the monk core class feeling that it is weak compared to the function that it should be performing compared ounce for ounce with the fighter. I want a whirling tasmanian devil unarmed and unarmored warrior.

So here is what I did. I renamed my monk variant the Ki Warrior. (If you can think of a better name, I am open for suggestions). This class is a meditative warrior focused on unarmed combat but without any intent to be an oriental style of fighter. This is a purely fantasy variant.

I took the fighers feat list and bonus feats every two levels and gave these to my monk modification. Most of the monk abilities became special abilities that the Ki Warrior could choose as a feat when reaching the equivalent monk level or higher. These ability feats could not be gained during an adventure but rather be taught them during down time through special training and a ceremony. Some of the monk abilities I did not especially care for being forced to take if I wanted to make a more martial type monk. This results in the monk having at least bonus feat every level as well as a few of the monk abilites gained along the way at appropriate levels. If some of this does not add up and I have an extra bonus feat, let me know.

The hit die and wisdom armor class bonuses stayed. I kept the simple weapons list but may remove this forcing the character to use a feat for this and keeping the class focused on unarmed combat.

Check it out and even playtest it if you get a chance and tell me what you think.

DreamChaser · Apr 21, 2003

I don't have to wait and see what most people are going to say to this one...

OVERPOWERED!!!!

I personally don't think it is too heinous but...wait. Yes I do. I designed an alternate monk using psychic warrior as a base, taking away all weapons and armor, giving them a limited power/power point progression, and few feats than this and most people on these boards still screamed overpowered.

A few saw the underpowered side caused by the utter lack of magical weapons but you've gotten around that.

You've created a combat machine that doesn't have to "waste" any time on non-combat related abilities or powers. Its the uber-monk; able to avoid any abilties that are not damage dealers.

All in all, I agree with the effort as I too hate the PB monk but I think you overdid the feats. It is too open ended. Plus, not all of a monk's abilties are equal (thats why some are held till later levels) so making all of them ceremony feats unbalances that delay.

Just my .02

DC

Nifft · Apr 21, 2003

I must agree -- OVERPOWERED!

More Feats than a Fighter, with few drawbacks.

-- Nifft

Spatzimaus · Apr 21, 2003

Definitely too much. If someone doesn't want one of the default Monk abilities (many of which were underpowered on purpose), they can pick something else... that makes the class substantially more powerful than before.
(Besides, one of those levels gave 3 Feats, with the one after it giving 2? I don't care how weak they are, that's too much.)

While the "give tons of free feats from a restricted list" method may work for d20 Modern, it's not so great for D&D. You just end up with a mishmash of abilities that don't really fit any one character concept.

Anyway, here's a link to the alt.Monk I posted a few months ago:
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31073
It has some flexibility by dividing the abilities into six Paths, but you still have to take certain abilities in order and there are stat restrictions at each step.

Andion Isurand · Apr 21, 2003

OVERPOWERED.

As it stands with all things considered, the PHB monk is still better than yours is right now.

Take a peek at OA's Monk class to broaden the foundation for your assertions.

redkobold · Apr 22, 2003

Thanks for everyone's input. I had a feeling that the bonus feats were overdoing it but I justified it with the fact that the monk essentially gets one or more feats every level. Of course, not all feats are created equal. Most of the advanced monk feats I do not care for. Perhaps the monk is the wrong starting point.
Maybe what I am looking for is more like a specialized unarmed fighter.

What do you guys think of the following form:

Use the fighter feat progression
Use the fighter feat list (minus the ranged weapon feats)
Use the fighter Weapon Specialization for the body
Keep the basic feats and abilities of the 1st level monk
d8 hit die
Use the monk wisdom modifier for armor class
Use the monk armed and unarmed attack progression
Use the monk Flurry of Blows, Evasion, Fast Movement, and Improved Evasion
Use the 3.5 edition of the monk Ki Strike for damage reduction
Use a weaker Fort Ref and Will save progression
No multiclassing
Lawful alignment

Thanks for the help and input in advance.

redkobold · Apr 22, 2003

eastern

"Anyway, here's a link to the alt.Monk I posted a few months ago:
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/show...&threadid=31073"

This monk version is very nice. I am starting to realize however that I am looking for a focused unarmed and disciplined fighter variant rather than a mystical monk variant.

Keep advice coming for this novice if you guys do not mind.

Lord Ravinous · Apr 22, 2003

Lemme dig around for ya, I know theres a 3rd Party book that has a Martial Artist, it aint the most balanced thing ive seen, but your seeming to have balancing issues than this class. Expect an edit containing the Book's name soon

EDIT: The name of the book is "Monks Beyond" by Chainmail Bikini Games. Hope this helps ya out.