QB's Monstrous Races

QuietBrowser · Oct 25, 2016

So, I'm not sure if anyone's still here or not, but I was just thinking this morning: in editions past, Halflings had the more "martially inclined" Tallfellow subrace, didn't they? But, currently, we've only got the Lightfoot, Stout and Ghostwise subraces. Do folks think there's enough mechanics-inspiring tradition in the Tallfellow to make it worthwhile to update it to 5e?

Redthistle · Oct 26, 2016

QuietBrowser said:
So, I'm not sure if anyone's still here or not, but I was just thinking this morning: in editions past, Halflings had the more "martially inclined" Tallfellow subrace, didn't they? But, currently, we've only got the Lightfoot, Stout and Ghostwise subraces. Do folks think there's enough mechanics-inspiring tradition in the Tallfellow to make it worthwhile to update it to 5e?

If I recollect correctly, the Tallfolk halflings were inspired by Merry and Pippin in the Lord of the Rings; their exceptional growth was a side effect of the time they spent with the Ent, Treebeard. Other than that, there wasn't any difference with other hobbits. I don't have my old 2e books available to peruse, so I'm not sure what other nuances were included to differentiate Tallfolk from other halflings.

QuietBrowser · Oct 26, 2016

Redthistle said:
If I recollect correctly, the Tallfolk halflings were inspired by Merry and Pippin in the Lord of the Rings; their exceptional growth was a side effect of the time they spent with the Ent, Treebeard. Other than that, there wasn't any difference with other hobbits. I don't have my old 2e books available to peruse, so I'm not sure what other nuances were included to differentiate Tallfolk from other halflings.

Well, I can take a look at some of the older books, so let's see what I can dig up... I'm sorry for only listing these sources, I'm not sure where else the Tallfellows showed up.

AD&D Monstrous Manual:
Can speak elven and enjoy their company, can become 6th level fighters if their Strength is 17, recognize secret doors on a d6 result of 1 like elves, +2 to Surprise rolls in forests and woodlands.

Complete Book of Gnomes & Halflings:
Recognize Secret Doors and Surprise bonus as above, -1 Strength, +1 Dexterity or Wisdom, increased Ability Score Minimums (Dex 8, Con 10, Int 6, Wis 7, Cha 5) and Maximums (Dex and Wis 19).

3.5 Monster Manual 1:
Replace the standard halfling +2 Listen check racial bonus with a +5 racial bonus to Search, Spot and Listen checks, sacrifice the racial bonus to Climb, Jump and Move Silently with the ability to detect secret doors like an elf.

So... yeah, this is what they were like before 5th edition. Lorewise, they're similar to Stouts, with implied descent from the union of halflings and elves, much like how Stouts are reputed to be halfling/dwarf crossbreeds.

There's also the more martial/nomadic Stronghearts, who showed up in 3e's Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and Races of Faerun. In the former, they traded the halfling racial bonus to saving throws for a free feat, whilst in the latter, they were just basic halflings with favored class: Rogue.

I wonder... I'm sure there's a way to get the Tallfellows to work, just not sure how.

QuietBrowser · Oct 26, 2016

So, it's probably obvious to folks who've been browsing this page that I like to avert the Always Chaotic Evil trope and I like having multiple different species interacting with relative peace. As a side-effect, this means I have a certain fondness for half-breed races; humanity's ability to hybridize with other sapients in the world of D&D is just one of those little things that appeals to me. Back in the day, over in Dragonlance, you had a considerable number more of half-breed races than core D&D has supported, specifically in the form of Half-Dwarves, Half-Gnomes and Half-Goblins.

Now, half-dwarves are fairly redundant if you just remove the grimdark "sterile and kill the mom in childbirth" edgy flavoring of muls, so they're not so important to me. But the Half-Gnome and Half-Goblin... I wonder... do folks think that 5e could mechanically support a Half-Gnome or Half-Goblin the way it supports a Half-Elf or Half-Orc? I might just dig up my copy of Races of Krynn and see if I can't brainstorm a conversion for both species from them... though the Half-Goblin should probably wait until we see the actual Goblin PC stats in Volo's Guide... godsdammit, I'm getting so sick of waiting.

doctorbadwolf · Oct 26, 2016

QuietBrowser said:
Oooh, that's actually a really good idea! Thanks a lot, I can definitely use that!

I wish I had saved my Shadowfell thread stuff on my computer. On the bright side, I've a few ideas for shadarkai and vrylocka feats and subrace variants.

Redthistle · Oct 29, 2016

Around the time that the 5e Player Handbook was first coming out, Remathlis had posted his own ideas for a number of player races. You might want to take a look at his thread (it still exists):

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?361168-D-amp-D-Conversion-Races#ixzz3CwFd8iCM

There's some overlap between your race selections, so there might be some food for thought there.

Redthistle · Oct 29, 2016

QuietBrowser said:
Okay, let me try and break this down...
Tinies:
I really need to dig up the Heroes of the Feywild and the 5e MM before I can properly comment on doing these. I suppose the big thing to answer is "would Sprites and Pixies be separate races, or sub-races of the same Fairy race"?

My own preference is to consider them as sub-races of the same Fey race.

Ryuumon13 · Oct 31, 2016

Hey there, a couple of things.
First off great job, these are all solid races I'd allow at my table. Main concerns across the board as you've already said are just a general lack of fluff/interesting bits. I don't have a fix for this unfortunately though so moving on.
Regarding your centaur/satyr/dryad/etc discussion I agree wholeheartedly with you, I'm down to discuss/bounce ideas off of if you think you need that though!
Burn With Me: A Pyre Genasi's Unarmed Attacks do Fire damage equal to their Constitution bonus. I think is monstrously overpowered when combined with the resistances. A monk would deal 1d4+con+dex each hit of a Flurry of Blows at lvl 1, not to mention the resistances/cantrips.

Now for what I came to this thread for in the first place: are you going to do the actual Hengeyokai race/subraces as a shifter type race? I haven't found any for 5e that are balanced, and looking at your work you do a great job.

Ps - finally made an account on here just so I could comment on the thread.
Edit: I think there is an error under "Foxfire" for Kitsune. It says you can cast Firebolt as a first level spell.. but Firebolt is a cantrip?

QuietBrowser · Oct 31, 2016

Thank you very much for your kind words!

What I'm currently thinking of doing with the Dryad is tapping into the lore from both this edition, where Dryads are fae spirits punished by being bonded to trees, and the 4e lore. In essence, Dryad and Hamadryad PCs are both "wild" Dryads who have found a way to circumvent their curse;

Dryads have done so by physically fusing with their tree, melding their essence into it ever deeper until they've become permanently inextricable from it. This causes "PC Dryads" to look more like fae plant creatures than the generic "beautiful elfin girl who steps into/out of a tree".

Hamadryads have instead used loopholes, allowing them to stretch their essence to bind them to not just one tree, but to trees in general. A "wild" hamadryad would thusly be more of a spirit of the forest itself than a tree-spirit. Only problem with this is that it'd probably still be pretty close to the "wild elf druid/enchanter multiclass" angle.

I think I recall that problem being pointed out before... would it help if it explicitly said you only get to use the higher of the two for a pyre monk? So it's either d4+con bonus OR D4+dex bonus?

Depends... what do you mean by shifter type race?

See, a big problem with the "change from human to hybrid to animal" racial ability set, as I found out whilst working on the aranea, is that it's incredibly hard to balance it out and, in the end, it often works out as pointless. Human form usually costs you all your unique racial abilities bar spell-like ones, whilst animal form prevents you from using pretty much anything. So, really, I just acknowledge what the players would probably do even if they did have the ability to shift between and presume such PCs spend all their time in hybrid form.

As for the hengeyokai themselves... the whole "shove all the shapeshifting animals together into one race differentiated only by stats/what it turns into" angle of the past never really sat well with me. What I've gone with is treating each of the "hengeyokai type" creatures from mythology as its own race - kitsune, tanuki, mujina (badger hengeyokai), kawauso (otter hengeyokai), itachi (weasel hengeyokai) - and, if I did up racial fluff in greater detail, I would note that, collectively, these fae animal-folk are usually referred to as the hengeyokai.

Yeah, I think I must have gotten confused as to Firebolt's actual spell leve.

Ryuumon13 · Nov 1, 2016

Nice! I like that idea for the Dryad, it definitely gives it it's own unique feel while staying true (ish) to the mythos aspect.
As for Hamadryads I honestly don't see anything wrong with the elf druid/enchanter angle. Granted it's cliche but so is nearly every other core race in D&D. *shrugs* fluff wise the Hamadryads could have a single home forest that they always know the status of, could give an interesting rp and side quest options for player and dms. Alternatively it could be bound to a specific type of tree: oak, maple, etc.? It would make them more than just the typical 'elf who can enter tree' trope.

Hrmm. That could be a fix, but I worry that that would make the point of it moot? Even if that restriction was only for monks. Maybe instead when a pyre genasi makes ano unarmed attack they can choose to have the damage dealt be fire damage? That might be too strong as well, but it is the most common element dmg, and that way it gives distinct flavor for monks, fighters, etc.

Sighh that's about what I figured from the general trend of your races. I asked because as you said, it is monstrously hard to balance them as the different shifter forms, but you did an awesome job on the Aranea. I'll try and do one up for the dog hengeyokai and see where I end up. I agreewith you though that classifying them all as the same race is silly, and adding it into the fluff would be better.