Building a Dagger-Wielding Thug

I'm wanting to build a character who is not the typical sly-sneaky thief, but rather the hulking thug. The inspiration for this character is a combination of an NPC from an old Living Greyhawk game (or at least how the DM portrayed the character) and the character Letho from the Witcher video game (example from a cinematic trailer https://youtu.be/UD8A8qj0rxs?t=74 ).

What I would like to do is optimize this character, but also keep a few character specific features that might ultimately be sub-optimal. Specifically, I want him to focus on using daggers and physically I want him to be large and imposing (possible Goliath race), probably even to the point of using Str instead of Dex as the combat stat.

I have 8 levels to play with, and I'm thinking Ranger or Rogue (or multiclass) would be the best fit. For Rogue I know that Assassin would be the most obvious archetype, but I am actually leaning more towards Arcane Trickster. The character would actually be fairly smart and cunning, but his methods are brutish and hamfisted. He's the type of guy who beats another criminal to death for moving in on his territory, but is smart enough to not get the crime pinned on him.

So what I'm thinking is:
Rogue 5 - Arcane Trickster / Ranger 3 - Hunter
Colossus Slayer
Favored Enemies: Humans & Half-Elves
Dual Wield Fighting Style
Skulker Feat

Stat Rolls: 13, 8, 16, 17, 11, 16
Str: 17
Dex: 16
Con: 16
Int: 13
Wis: 11
Cha: 8
(no racial adjustments yet)

Oh, I should also note that this is a one-off character so no point in looking to plan for the future. So any optimization needs to be done with those 8 potential levels. I'm not sure of any access to magical equipment, but any standard equipment is fair game.

Any thoughts?


Also, his name is "Toecutter". ^_^

Looks fine. Remember you can use Str to attack with daggers and still get your sneak attack. Expertise in athletics and stealth seem right.

Also consider rogue 5/ battlemaster 3.

Ok, lets have a go:

Goliath

Str 16+2
Dex 16
Con 17+1
Int 13
Wis 11
Ch 8

Ranger does not work with that stat array as your wisdom is too low to multiclass. So either swap int and wis or be a goghter instead.

fighting style two handed. Battle master if fighter else hunted. Use medium armor and leave dex where it is. Maybe take medium armor master at some point.
Be fighter or ranger 5 at some point. Rest may be rogue.

Yeah. That is my advice.

Probably:
Str 16+2
Dex 16
Con 16+2
Int 11
Wis 13
Cha 8

Outlander,
Rogue 1,
Rogue 1/ranger 1
Rogue 1/ranger 2
Rogue 2/ranger 2
Rogue 2/ranger 3
Rogue 3/ranger 3
Rogue 3/ranger 4
Rogue 3/ranger 5
Rogue up till the end.

Maybe rogue 3 before ranger 3, but the rest seems good. You should be ok offensive and defensive. At level 5 you have 2 attacks with 1d4+4 and even 2d6 sneak attack on top or 1d6 sneak attack and 1d8 colossus slayer. That is about as much as 2 hits with a greataxe. You have hunter's mark on top of that if you really need more damage. Arcane trickster will at least give more uses of hunter's mark.
At ranger 5 you will get another 1d4+4 or now +5 attack. That is total level 8 where the cleric increases his damage on melee hits. At that point you increase your damage as a regular rogue, increasing sneak attack more and more. At total level 10 and eleven you get evasion and uncanny dodge. for extra survivability. Yeah. That concept is solid.
Your high constitution will make concentration saves extra hard to break. At some point resilient constitution may be worthwile. You then can increase con and wis by one point to even it out later.

sorry i will finish soon.

If you are going Str-based rogue, consider grappling as well. Just make Athletics one of your expertise and you're pretty darn good at it.

On the other hand I just watched the video and what I got was:

• Light or no armor.
• Some supernatural effects.
• Brawny and dexterous.
• Can stealth.
• Fast.
• Dodges a shot arrow.
• Stab stab stabbity stab.

Putting those together I get monk. Dagger is a monk weapon, so it will go up in damage. Monk can provide whatever little magicly effect he does at the beginning of the trailer. All monk things CAN be used with strength just fine, though the railer makes it obvious he's also agile. Unarmored defense helps with no armor. Monks get extra movement. They can escape ranged attacks like that bow shot. And they can get lots of attacks (though unarmed).

Monk 5 / XX could also work. A level of fighter or 2 levels of ranger to get the two weapon fighting style. Rogue 3 gives a tradition and 2d6 sneak attack. Actually, fighter 3 gives a heck of a lot.

I don't know why people haven't suggested a Rogue/Barbarian yet, but Rogue/Barbarian.
As long as you're using a finesse weapon you can get Sneak Attack - Dex need not apply.

Oh yes. That's right. Rogue barbarian rocks. A reliable source of advantage an okish AC. You may stop at barbarian 2 if you don't want to be a a totem barb. Berserker does not cut it for dagger wielder. You give up two wepon fighting style which is quite some damage. But it may pay off. Since you want to be a spellcaster and you want no armor barb up to 5 may be a great idea. Take totem and not bear please. Wolf totem or something else does fit better with a cunning character.

mellored said:

Looks fine. Remember you can use Str to attack with daggers and still get your sneak attack. Expertise in athletics and stealth seem right.

Also consider rogue 5/ battlemaster 3.

Click to expand...

I ended up drawing this version up over the weekend. I went with Swashbuckler, even though the classic Swashbuckler wouldn't fit his style, but the ability to Sneak Attack in 1v1 may be way more useful for this particular character. I also went with Battlemaster (Menacing, Riposte, and Precision attacks).

From a dueling standpoint, this makes him much more threatening since he can activate Sneak Attacks without needing to get advantage, letting him literally walk up and stab you in the heart. There's nothing restricting his armor either, so he can wear Breastplate and still take no Disadvantage on Stealth. With taking an ASI in Str and the Two-Weapon fighting style each dagger attack will be 1d4+5 and on hit will trigger the 3d6 Sneak Attack. With a Menacing Strike he has a DC 16 Wis save or the target becomes Frightened, at which point he can back off without an AoO thanks to the Swashbuckler class. The target can't advance on him, so he can taunt before rushing back in and doing it again OR start throwing his daggers. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but if the enemy misses and he Ripostes, then that attack can also be a Sneak Attack if it hits.

He loses any magical tricks, which kinda sucks, but that *could* be rectified by taking Magic Initiate instead of Skulker as a Human-Variant bonus. However, I think the Swashbuckler archetype is a much better fit.



Also, I'm intrigued by the idea of a Rogue/Barbarian.

I looked up the totem spirits again and as a rogue the elk seems great. You have an extra 15ft movement speed. This combined with the normal +10 ft and dash makes it 90ft per round and still attack. Take mobility as your bonus feet and it is 110ft and no opportunity attack by your target and also ignoring difficult terrain. Reckless attack guarantees that you always have advantage and you can easily get out of reach all the time. Terrible news for most foes.

UngeheuerLich said:

I looked up the totem spirits again and as a rogue the elk seems great. You have an extra 15ft movement speed. This combined with the normal +10 ft and dash makes it 90ft per round and still attack. Take mobility as your bonus feet and it is 110ft and no opportunity attack by your target and also ignoring difficult terrain. Reckless attack guarantees that you always have advantage and you can easily get out of reach all the time. Terrible news for most foes.

Click to expand...

Wow, who needs a mount? I'd love to see a Gnome joust while riding that Rogue/Barbarian. =)