D&D 5E [GUIDE] NADRIGOL's Melee Bladesinger Guide

GarrettKP · Oct 16, 2016

[GUIDE] NADRIGOL's Bladesinger Guide

Yunru said:
20+ a hit? Sure 20 extra hp helps. So does not having your (effectively) AC drop from losing concentration on Haste or Greater Invisibility.

We play different styles. I don't use invisibility very often. Sure Haste I will make use of, but my main defensive spell is Mirror Image. No concentration needed. Haste I use for the extra attack and move speed more than the +2, and I don't use it against the big threats where the extra HP is the biggest help. Too risky with its drawbacks.

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Yunru · Oct 16, 2016

GarrettKP said:
We play different styles. I don't use invisibility very often. Sure Haste I will make use of, but my main defensive spell is Mirror Image. No concentration needed. Haste I use for the extra attack and move speed more than the +2.

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Still doesn't affect the maths: a miss causes no damage, 20 extra HP (and that only at level 20) is just that. 20 HP. Once per day. Versus however much you save from your Concentration spells turning a hit into a miss.

Re: Saves: No, saves are in the moment ("There's a boulder heading for you, make a Dexterity saving throw"), checks are from things you make an effort towards ("It's a Dexterity (Acrobatics) check to run the assault course").

GarrettKP · Oct 16, 2016

Yunru said:
Still doesn't affect the maths: a miss causes no damage, 20 extra HP (and that only at level 20) is just that. 20 HP. Once per day. Versus however much you save from your Concentration spells turning a hit into a miss.

That makes no sense. If you're relying on your concentration spells turning hits into misses why are you having to make checks in the first place? You're not getting hit!

Ultimately it's not a reliable playstyle to just "not get hit." At higher levels things can hit over your AC with good rolls and force saves that do damage regardless of if you make them or not.

You will take damage. And with such low health making your saves isn't important when you get dropped from the attacks that do make it through.

Taking Tough allows you to survive longer when you do get hit (and you will) and you aren't giving up a huge boost to Con saves. It's only 5% difference. That comes up 1 in 20 saves. I'll give up that one miss in 20 to make sure I survive longer when I can't avoid the hit.

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GarrettKP · Oct 16, 2016

Yunru said:
Re: Saves: No, saves are in the moment ("There's a boulder heading for you, make a Dexterity saving throw"), checks are from things you make an effort towards ("It's a Dexterity (Acrobatics) check to run the assault course").

DMG page 110. Details harsh weather. You make saves. Not checks.

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Yunru · Oct 16, 2016

GarrettKP said:
That makes no sense. If you're relying on your concentration spells turning hits into misses why are you having to make checks in the first place? You're not getting hit!

No, that doesn't make sense. It's an argument in the same vein as "If you're relying on hit points to not die, why are you dieing in the first place? You're not taking damage!"

Hits will get through, it's inevitable, especially given saving throw powers are a thing. What is important is that when they do get through, you minimize their impact. Even at it's highest, losing 20HP has less of an impact than losing the likes of Haste.

Yunru · Oct 16, 2016

GarrettKP said:
DMG page 110. Details harsh weather. You make saves. Not checks.

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DMG page whatever, rule 0.

GarrettKP · Oct 16, 2016

Yunru said:
DMG page whatever, rule 0.

You can't just ignore an established rule just to support your own argument.

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GarrettKP · Oct 16, 2016

Yunru said:
No, that doesn't make sense. It's an argument in the same vein as "If you're relying on hit points to not die, why are you dieing in the first place? You're not taking damage!"

Hits will get through, it's inevitable, especially given saving throw powers are a thing. What is important is that when they do get through, you minimize their impact. Even at it's highest, losing 20HP has less of an impact than losing the likes of Haste.

Not when losing that HP drops you. Again just a +1 to Con saves won't effect 19 out of 20 saves you make. The 20 HP keeps you alive longer.

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Yunru · Oct 16, 2016

GarrettKP said:
You can't just ignore an established rule just to support your own argument.

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Ditto. Rule 0 is the unchanging established rule.

Yunru · Oct 16, 2016

GarrettKP said:
Not when losing that HP drops you. Again just a +1 to Con saves won't effect 19 out of 20 saves you make. The 20 HP keeps you alive longer.

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Okay. And in what sceanario does a creature ever do enough damage to drop you in a single hit? Because if it's not a single hit, keeping the AC is better than keeping the HP.