[GUIDE] NADRIGOL's Melee Bladesinger Guide
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  1. #1

    Acolyte (Lvl 2)



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    [GUIDE] NADRIGOL's Melee Bladesinger Guide

    Hello everybody!

    First, Here's the guide!

    NADRIGOL's Melee Bladesinger Guide

    This is a guide specifically for building melee focussed Bladesingers, with emphasis on multi-classing. I have plenty of caveats and explanations in my opening sections about the focus and breadth of this guide. While I welcome you to share your opinions about concepts or builds I don't focus on, keep in mind that I will be keeping the tone and direction of the guide the way it is now.

    Many thanks to TheBigHouse who was kind enough to let me use his spell ratings from Arrive on Time as a baseline for my guide. I started with his ratings and descriptions and updated and adjusted for the Bladesinger playstyle.

    Credit also to Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards 5e, which alongside TheBigHouse's guide, made up my early 5e wizard education.

    Those interested in my Math section can find the read-only spreadsheet here. Explanation on how to use the spreadsheet and the involved acronyms are in the Math section of the guide.

    ---Late 2017 Update---

    I wrote this guide in late 2016, and with feedback/comments from user's here, updated it through early 2017. Shifts in my work/personal life have taken me away from D&D for the better part of 2017, and I don't anticipate a return in the near future. As such, major updates to the guide and thorough responses to new comments shouldn't be expected. I do make a point of checking in from time to time though.

    I also wanted to highlight some developments in the community.

    EN World User Rofel Wodring has recently posted his own Bladesinger Guide, which represents a tremendous amount of work on his part. Our two guides take very different approaches to the class and I recommend you read through it to see which play style appeals to you. Check out his guide if you want:
    -an amazing review of magical items
    -party interactions with each other class
    -more acknowledgement of AL rules/gameplay
    -post mid-2017 WotC content
    -less focus on melee and melee DPR
    -less focus on multiclassing
    His guide is also undergoing active development and is more likely to include recent WotC content. The comment section on his guide also includes some interesting discussion which hasn't occurred here before.

    To follow suit on an interesting inclusion of his, I will be linking a publically editable copy of this guide for anyone who wants to include their own content/comments. Perhaps some enterprising individuals will see this as an opportunity to include more recent content in this guide. Please be respectful!

    NADRIGOL's Melee Bladesinger Guide - Public Edit Version

    To conclude, I am still around, and still receiving notifications to most of the big wizard guide threads around here, so feel free to include me in discussion. I just wanted to make sure no one expected major updates to this guide in the near future.
    Last edited by NADRIGOL; Tuesday, 7th November, 2017 at 10:27 PM. Reason: Update
    XP UngeheuerLich, Schattenriss gave XP for this post

  2. #2

    Grandmaster of Flowers (Lvl 18)



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    Two things of note:
    Dual wielding doesn't work with the SCAG cantrips: You're reducing your DPR by dual wielding vs using the cantrips.
    Duelling doesn't increase your hit chance.

    Also seems someone forgot Magic Stone. Going SAD for a bonus action roughly every other round is quite a good deal given the above.
    Last edited by Yunru; Friday, 14th October, 2016 at 10:58 PM.
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  3. #3

    The Great Druid (Lvl 17)



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    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Two things of note:
    Dual wielding doesn't work with the SCAG cantrips: You're reducing your DPR by dual wielding vs using the cantrips.
    Duelling doesn't increase your hit chance.

    Also seems someone forgot Magic Stone. Going SAD for a bonus action roughly every other round is quite a good deal given the above.
    It is not entirely true that you reduce your damage by dual wielding. 3 attack at level 6 absolutely come ahead and are more reliable than booming blade or greenflame blade. It is still a shame that there is some kind of negative synergy between extra attack and those cantrips... And that the bladesinger is not allowed to use dexterity when wielding a long sword one handed... a shame I say.

  4. #4

    Grandmaster of Flowers (Lvl 18)



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    Hmm, you may be right. Maybe if the Bladesinger had the feature that actually synergised with it... *coughwarmagic*

  5. #5

    Scout (Lvl 6)



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    Hi,

    There's a general issue that these cantrips diminish the value of Second Attack. Not an "oh no, the game is ruined" issue. Maybe not an issue at all, just a change.

    Note that a character planning to use that second attack might consider not bothering with any of these cantrips, in favor of utility, even though that sort of thing never shows up in the DPR sweepstakes.

    Anyway,

    Ken

  6. #6
    Thanks for this guide Nadrigol.

    it was Time for a bladesinger Guide. I will have a look and let you know any comments I might have.

  7. #7
    One comment: in your damage tables the last ASI is calculated based on lvl 20 (wizards get it at level 19). So basically other races/but bladesinger table would the last ASI at lvl 19 not 20. Same to other races /dual wielder would get the last one at lvl 20 (whereas the guide mentions th last one not at all). Or did I miss something?
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  8. #8
    In addition one question about how to read the rules when using the cantrips green flame blade or boom blade. Both cantrips state that a melde attack has to be made. In the PHB on page 205 it is written that a spell requiring an attack (melde or range) uses the spellcasting abilitiy modifier.

    Does this mean that the bladesinger a) uses INT bonus when attacking with GFB or BB cantrips and when the bladesinger does b) a full attack (potentially with dual wielding) DEX bonus is applied?

    if the answer is yes, is this reflected in the guide /statistics?

  9. #9
    I am not sure I agree with your assessment of George. It's not always about DPR, George is pretty unkillable, and that can count for a lot. I've had some experience playing George and it can be pretty satisfying to tie up enemies while they are stuck uselessly trying to poke at you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenriss View Post
    In addition one question about how to read the rules when using the cantrips green flame blade or boom blade. Both cantrips state that a melde attack has to be made. In the PHB on page 205 it is written that a spell requiring an attack (melde or range) uses the spellcasting abilitiy modifier.

    Does this mean that the bladesinger a) uses INT bonus when attacking with GFB or BB cantrips and when the bladesinger does b) a full attack (potentially with dual wielding) DEX bonus is applied?

    if the answer is yes, is this reflected in the guide /statistics?
    That refers to the spell itself requiring an attack roll, GFB and BB are worded such that you make a melee weapon attack as part of casting the spell. The weapon attack is resolved separately from the spell itself, and uses your STR or DEX as appropriate (though the spell does augment it by adding some extra dice at higher levels).
    Last edited by DarkTechnomancer; Saturday, 15th October, 2016 at 10:38 AM.

  10. #10

    Acolyte (Lvl 2)



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    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenriss View Post
    One comment: in your damage tables the last ASI is calculated based on lvl 20 (wizards get it at level 19). So basically other races/but bladesinger table would the last ASI at lvl 19 not 20. Same to other races /dual wielder would get the last one at lvl 20 (whereas the guide mentions th last one not at all). Or did I miss something?
    Thank you! Yes, I have been thinking about my own character based on two levels of Fighter. I must have been in this mindset when I built these tables. Correcting now.

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