Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Feats that 5e Gives Characters for Free

Hrothgar Rannúlfr

Explorer

• Nov 3, 2016

• #1

Hi, everyone.

I'm considering converting a few of the 5E classes to Pathfinder for a particular set of adventures that use the Pathfinder ruleset. After being on a 5E kick for a while, I'm feeling the draw to return to Pathfinder for the crunch. However, 5E seems to give characters things for free that Pathfinder charges a feat for.
Things such as:

• Weapon Finesse, but with the added bonus of Dex modifier to damage. (was previously mislisted as Weapon Expertise— Thanks, Saelorn!)
• Improved Unarmed Strike.
• Moving between attacks during a full attack (as well as full attack and move); basically Spring Attack, but better.
• No chance of arcane spell failure for armor worn (like Arcane Armor Training, but better).
• No opportunity attack for spell casting while threatened (Combat Casting, but better).
• No opportunity attack for combat maneuvers (such as Disarm, Trip, etc...).
• No confirmation roll for criticals (eliminates need for Critical Focus).
• Two Weapon Fighting works differently and is easier.
• Complete healing after long rest from start (without needing Mythic powers)— (ccs)
• Spellcasters may use their caster stat for spell attack rolls.

Have I missed any feats from the Pathfinder Core Rulebook that all 5E characters would have? Does anyone have a list of Pathfinder feats that all 5E characters would be assumed to have?

 

Last edited: Nov 14, 2016

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ccs

41st lv DM

• Nov 3, 2016

• #2

Complete healing after an 8hr/long rest.

5e - happens from the get go.
PF - you need to be using the Mythic Powers book.

 

Hrothgar Rannúlfr

Explorer

• Nov 3, 2016

• #3

Good catch on that, ccs. Much appreciated.

Anything else?

 

T

The Crimson Binome

Hero

• Nov 12, 2016

• #4

Weapon Finesse is the big one, except it does even more in 5E since it includes Dex to damage (which may also exist as a separate feat in Pathfinder).

 

Hrothgar Rannúlfr

Explorer

• Nov 14, 2016

• #5

Thanks, Saelorn.

I think that's what I meant with "Weapon Expertise."

And, you're right. That's a big one. And, easy enough to houserule that all PC's receive it for free (including the Dex bonus to damage).

 

S

Schmoe

Adventurer

• Nov 14, 2016

• #6

Looking at the list, those all look like good changes in 5e that might help close the gap between full casters and non-casters in PF.

 

Hrothgar Rannúlfr

Explorer

• Nov 14, 2016

• #7

I think so, too, Schmoe.

Our group is planning on implementing these changes the next time we play.

We've been playing a mashup of 1E and 5E, but now we're returning to Pathfinder, but we're keeping a few things from 5E (and a little from 1E).

 

Hrothgar Rannúlfr

Explorer

• Nov 19, 2016

• #8

Hi, everyone.

One of my players, pointed out that one of the strengths of Pathfinder is that it doesn't give these things to all characters for free.

He feels that mages fighting in armor should be extremely rare. Just gaining the appropriate armor proficiency isn't enough to avoid possible spell failure.

He pointed to the example of the Iron Mage from Ptolus (3X) as being something special. The Iron Mage appears to wear heavy armor and cast spells without the arcane spell casting chance. To him, that was something that would lose its specialness if such a house rule to emulate 5E were brought into Pathfinder.

So, that discussion has me questioning whether or not to apply any of these ideas, at all.

 

Hrothgar Rannúlfr

Explorer

• Nov 20, 2016

• #9

Saelorn said:

Weapon Finesse is the big one, except it does even more in 5E since it includes Dex to damage (which may also exist as a separate feat in Pathfinder).

Click to expand...

Hi, Saelorn,

Having spent some time looking into this, today, it seems that Dex to damage is very hard to get in the PF RPG. I read some discussions about how allowing it can make Strength a dump stat.

Although there are a few ways to get it, mostly related to being a dervish swashbuckler (not sure of the official archetype name), the purest way to get it with all finesse weapons would be via Mythic Weapon Finesse (which is only available to characters when the Mythic Rules are in play and the character has somehow become mythic). Mythic Pathfinder is still an unknown to me. So, I'm not sure how hard that is to get.

Ultimately, for this, I may settle upon a house-ruled feat that requires Weapon Finesse as a pre-requisite and probably only open to fighters of 4th level and higher.

Greater Weapon Finesse

You're an expert with weapons that rely on your agility.
Prerequisite: Weapon Finesse, fighter level 4th or base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When using Weapon Finesse, you may also use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on your damage rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty doesn't apply to either the attack rolls or the damage rolls.​

Would that be fair enough?

 

T

The Crimson Binome

Hero

• Nov 20, 2016

• #10

Hrothgar Rannúlfr said:

Having spent some time looking into this, today, it seems that Dex to damage is very hard to get in the PF RPG. I read some discussions about how allowing it can make Strength a dump stat.

Click to expand...

The real danger lies in the two-weapon fighting rules. That whole chain of feats has always been very Dex-intensive, which prevented someone from going into it with high Strength, and that's what kept everything in check - you get lots of attacks, but each one is only like 1d6+3.

It's not hard to get a single stat up to +7 in Pathfinder, but getting two stats that high is prohibitively expensive in terms of cash and point cost. If you could add Dex to damage with melee weapons, then you wouldn't need to care about Strength at all, where you would previously care about it a lot since it was multiplicative with your number of attacks. With Dex to damage instead of Strength, now you have six attacks at 1d6+9 instead of 1d6+3 (and you probably have higher Con).

Two-weapon fighting would overtake Power Attack in terms of overall damage output, where Power Attack was already much better than any other option. It's hard to say if that's better or worse than how it is right now. It's been a long time since Pathfinder was anything remotely close to balanced, so adding in another path to power would either bring greater versatility (if everyone is already limiting themselves to powerful options) or it would make the less-optimized characters fall even further behind the curve.