5E DM Help! My rogue always spams Hide as a bonus action, and i cant target him!
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  1. #1
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    DM Help! My rogue always spams Hide as a bonus action, and i cant target him!

    So, i know that rogues are the best at hiding, moving in slowly, hitting with a nasty Sneak Attack, and then, hiding as a bonus action to avoid getting hit themselves.

    It's their thing. I get it.

    However, it doesn't seem that any of the monsters presented in the MM or elsewhere really have a good enough Perception skill to find my rogue player.

    I am DMing "Out of the Abyss", and at this point, they are levels 11 going on 12, so i expect them to be top notch characters, but this has been going on for a while now....

    Most monsters just dont have the Perception to find the rogue when he hides. Worse, some monsters dont even have the Perception skill and must use thier weak Wisdom scores (at best a +3 or +4) to even try.

    I've tried things like giving my rogue disadvantage while hiding in watery puddled places...

    I've also had the monster go look around for the rogue at the spot where he last was seen, forcing my rogue to re-roll on his hide check...

    ..but rogues are just too damn good at it! Especially, when sneaking around in the Underdark.

    I just dont know what to do at this point.

    I want to hit my damn rogue so bad, but he's always hiding! And its like every round because he can do this as a bonus action with Cunning Action (granted at 2nd level!)

    Any suggestions?
    Anyone else have this problem?
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  2. #2
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    AoEs? And spread monsters out so they never lose line of sight. Use monsters that have tremorsense or blindsight.

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  3. #3
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    The Stealth rules in 5E are a mess; however, they aren't quite this abusable. Per the sidebar on page 177: "You can't hide from a creature that can see you clearly*... In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, so if you come out of hiding and approach a creature, it usually sees you."

    As I read this, if a monster has a clear line of sight to the rogue, he can't hide or stay hidden, no matter what he gets on his Stealth roll. Furthermore, any reasonably bright monster understands object permanence--if the rogue ducks behind a pillar and hides, the monster can figure out that if it walks around the pillar, it will be able to see and whack the rogue.

    *The word "clearly" added in PHB errata.

  4. #4
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    You're the DM. You CAN modify monsters so that they present appropriate challenges....
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dausuul View Post
    The Stealth rules in 5E are a mess; however, they aren't quite this abusable. Per the sidebar on page 177: "You can't hide from a creature that can see you clearly*... In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, so if you come out of hiding and approach a creature, it usually sees you."

    As I read this, if a monster has a clear line of sight to the rogue, he can't hide or stay hidden, no matter what he gets on his Stealth roll. Furthermore, any reasonably bright monster understands object permanence--if the rogue ducks behind a pillar and hides, the monster can figure out that if it walks around the pillar, it will be able to see and whack the rogue.

    *The word "clearly" added in PHB errata.
    This is how I DM these situations, and Ive also seen celebrity DM Matt Mercer rule similarly on his Twitch show Critical Role. A rogue cannot hide again if a monster can see her and has line of sight.

    Now go have fun killing that pesky rogue ;-)
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaudius Rex View Post
    So, i know that rogues are the best at hiding, moving in slowly, hitting with a nasty Sneak Attack, and then, hiding as a bonus action to avoid getting hit themselves.

    It's their thing. I get it.

    However, it doesn't seem that any of the monsters presented in the MM or elsewhere really have a good enough Perception skill to find my rogue player.

    *snip*

    Any suggestions?

    Anyone else have this problem?
    I view Stealth as one of the more potentially-broken areas of PHB by the rules as written. I've done a few things at my table to deal with this:

    (1) Exploding dice on a crit success or crit fail so that anyone can fail potentially. (Doesn't affect high-level Rogues due to Reliable Talent, but prevents a Shadow Monk with +17 to Stealth from being completely ridiculous.)

    (2) Some monsters with blindsight (like Black Puddings) are unaffected by Dexterity (Stealth) rolls, since they don't rely on vision at all. Instead they rely on "taste" through the air. I'd allow you to prep an anti-Black Pudding stealth treatment ahead of time (e.g. by smearing unguent all over yourself) with a successful Intelligence (Nature) + Intelligence (Stealth) roll, but just sneaking around and hiding in darkness per usual isn't going to help you.

    (3) Some monsters, like drow and goblins, like to play Stealth and Counter-Stealth games. If a PC hides, the monsters hide too, and then everyone starts Searching (action: make a Perception roll) to uncover each other so that everyone on their side can paste whoever it was they uncovered before hiding again. Naturally the PCs usually come out ahead because they have better skills, but when there are 10+ drow all searching for you, the slightest slip (low Stealth roll) leads to almost certain discovery and a whole bunch of sleep-poisoned crossbow bolts to the face.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaudius Rex View Post
    So, i know that rogues are the best at hiding, moving in slowly, hitting with a nasty Sneak Attack, and then, hiding as a bonus action to avoid getting hit themselves.

    It's their thing. I get it.

    However, it doesn't seem that any of the monsters presented in the MM or elsewhere really have a good enough Perception skill to find my rogue player.

    I am DMing "Out of the Abyss", and at this point, they are levels 11 going on 12, so i expect them to be top notch characters, but this has been going on for a while now....

    Most monsters just dont have the Perception to find the rogue when he hides. Worse, some monsters dont even have the Perception skill and must use thier weak Wisdom scores (at best a +3 or +4) to even try.

    I've tried things like giving my rogue disadvantage while hiding in watery puddled places...

    I've also had the monster go look around for the rogue at the spot where he last was seen, forcing my rogue to re-roll on his hide check...

    ..but rogues are just too damn good at it! Especially, when sneaking around in the Underdark.

    I just dont know what to do at this point.

    I want to hit my damn rogue so bad, but he's always hiding! And its like every round because he can do this as a bonus action with Cunning Action (granted at 2nd level!)

    Any suggestions?
    Anyone else have this problem?
    While it's good to use interesting terrain with plenty of hiding places most of the time, there's nothing wrong on occasion using a flat area with no cover or concealment available. If there's nowhere to hide, then you can't hide. Unless he's invisible of course, but I'm assuming no one is casting Greater Invisibility on him every encounter.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanaelialae View Post
    While it's good to use interesting terrain with plenty of hiding places most of the time, there's nothing wrong on occasion using a flat area with no cover or concealment available. If there's nowhere to hide, then you can't hide. Unless he's invisible of course, but I'm assuming no one is casting Greater Invisibility on him every encounter.
    Unless he has enough foresight to learn spells like Fog Cloud and Darkness. Even Minor Illusion and Mold Earth could potentially work, depending on how the DM runs hiding.

    Greater Invisibility works but it's actually overkill for a rogue.

  9. #9
    If you really want to hit him, you could have your npcs ready an action to hit him when he comes out of hiding momentarily. Just don't announce what you are doing, or he probably won't come out at all.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hemlock View Post
    Unless he has enough foresight to learn spells like Fog Cloud and Darkness. Even Minor Illusion and Mold Earth could potentially work, depending on how the DM runs hiding.

    Greater Invisibility works but it's actually overkill for a rogue.
    That's assuming he's an arcane trickster (or caster multi).

    Besides, those tactics won't always work. Depending on the terrain (such as a small cavern where the effect will fill the entire area) you might seriously hamper your party. Plus, the enemy could employ similar tactics by utilizing your fog cloud / darkness to deny you sneak attack*.

    Those spells are excellent choices for a rogue to have on hand, but I can't imagine using them in every encounter.

    EDIT: *wait, no, those are my house rules

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