How to stop players from meta-gaming?

Delgar

First Post
I was just wondering if anyone here had any tried, tested and true methods to stop players from meta-gaming?

How do you get players to stop calculating odds? How do you get players to role-play their character? Stop thinking about what prestige class they want to take at X'th level and let their character grow with the game?

Any ideas?

Delgar
 

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caudor

Adventurer
Like it says on the cereal commercial...you can't beat the crunch because the crunch always gives you away ;)

I'd say one way is to build (or run) an adventure where the 'story' hooks people into role playing. Describe smells, sounds, feels in much more detail. Roleplay the NPC with zest.

This might not work at first, but when they get pulled into the overall story...they will eventually come around.

It sounds your players enjoy the crunchy aspects. Mine sure do, but focus mainly on this between sessions.

What things have you tried so far that worked or didn't work? That info will helps folks with providing good advice.

Good luck on your campaign!
 

The Serge

First Post
This is actually somewhat of a touchy subject.

On the one hand, many DMs and Players say that they value the "natural" growth of the PC and the impact that PC has on the campaign and vice-versa. We like to think that Players and DMs both are going to avoid using external/real-life knowledge as a "crutch" or undue influence on the decisions their characters make.

On the other hand, this is a game. As a game, there are strategies and tactics that both Players and DMs use to confound, confuse, prepare, and -- yes, it's true -- win.

I do not think that a player should be penalized for creating a character at first level with the goal of achieving a specific PrC at level 9 so long as the player knows the PrC is available in the game world. Afterall, many of us had desires and goals to achieve some kind of profession or notoriety in some field or career at one point in our lives well before we had any clue as to what it took to achieve said goal (and many of us continue to have ideas and attitudes about certain desires even after we've figured out what it takes to achieve these goals). I've never had any problem with players working to achieve a specific alignment, PrC, or what-have-you so long as they are doing so within the dual-framework of role-playing and gaming.

That in mind, I think that there are clear signs when the threat of meta-gaming overwhelms the desire or goal to role-play. If at every encounter, you have a player who comments on the attacking monster and his character conveniently knows that it's a Pit Fiend despite the fact that the character's a 10th level country-bumpkin who's never had a discussion with the local cleric about the afterlife and the various worlds beyond, then you have a problem. A sure-fire way to handle this is to introduce monsters in a different fashion. Increase the HD, swap out spells, or grant levels; this may require that the monster is introduced later than you'd prefer, but at least it will force the meta-gamer to always second-guess himself.

Beware as a DM for doing the same things you accuse meta-gaming players of doing. For example, if you know that your players like to fly, like to haste, and are always immunue to fire, every single enemy they fight shouldn't be prepared to counter these elements. Of course, a recurring adversary who's confronted the PCs before may be prepared, but new enemies won't necessarily be prepared. Likewise, don't ensure that adversaries are immune to newfound or historically successful tactics/powers. That stinks of foul-play and spite and gives the appearance that the game's about DM vs. PC and that's not the point.

This is a game. Never forget that. But, it's also partly live theatre. The two can meld well and there needs to be that understanding from the get-go. Discuss with your players your expectations and be certain that they will offer their positions as well.

Good luck!
 

FreeTheSlaves

Adventurer
Must fill this space

Talk to them about it, no really. Tell them that you don't like it and see what they say.

That said I expect the players to have a rough idea of the odds and how they want to develop their characters, this is not metagaming and it is a good thing.

Perhaps the issue is a lack of roleplaying, if so bring it up. It maybe that they feel they can't or don't know how, you may have to help them.

Sadly it may well be that they have no interest in that style of play, in which case you have to ask yourself do you want to play their style of play. I had to make this choice and I decided to leave that group (but not without poaching most of the best players).

There are various roleplaying sites with plenty of good advice on the links page here at Enworld to help you and your mates to really get into character roleplaying.

Good luck;)
 

Black Omega

First Post
Some meta-gaming is ok, really. With the prereqs of many PrC's it's hard to let your character grow without some planning. Even if it makes perfect sense for a character to start in on a certain PrC thanks to RP, they still need all the prereqs and sometimes those are not easy to meet without advanced planning.

Monsters are rarely a problem since I just use stats and change how things look. For basic creatures or things the group has met before I'll say 'You see ten bakemono.' but for most things it is 'You see a ten foot tall, emaciated creature with three waving tongues that burn with a hellish green light.'

I usually start RP from my side. The character wants to Gather Information, so he rolls to see how well he does then I start it off as roleplaying meeting the person with the info.
 

The Serge

First Post
Another thing.

There are a lot of people out there who like to role-play out things that they as individuals know and impart to their PCs.

For example, there are people out there who know a good amount about how people in medieval Europe communicated, how castles were built and defended, and so on. These folks are comfortable rping this out regardless of whether or not their characters have ranks in skills like Diplomacy, Knowledge (War), or Skill (Carpentry/stonework).

This is problematic for a number of reasons. First, it unfairly penalizes those people not as comfortable with speaking in Old English or who really don't know squat about castles and medieval warfare... but their PCs do. That's why I always require that people role for Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive, and the like (well, not always. On rare occasion, for brevity, I'll allow the rp to go over).

Again, this is a game and that fact should never be overlooked. Not everybody is pursuing an Emmy or a Golden Globe. I had one player who was relatively hesitant to try accents or actively role-play his character despite the great skills he had for certain interactions. Because role-playing is an important component of the game, he eventually improved his skills, but I allowed him to roll out the appropriate skills for his character as he acclimated to the my specific gaming culture.
 

d20Dwarf

Explorer
The biggest problem I have is with the players discussing every character's move on their turn in combat. It gets really tiresome and bogs things down, so lately I've simply locked people into the first thing they say if others chime in, or I'll disallow actions that are suggested in an obviously non-character and untimely way.
 

KingOfChaos

First Post
d20Dwarf said:
The biggest problem I have is with the players discussing every character's move on their turn in combat. It gets really tiresome and bogs things down, so lately I've simply locked people into the first thing they say if others chime in, or I'll disallow actions that are suggested in an obviously non-character and untimely way.

If you weren't a guy, I think you were my sister :p She is our DM and she basically does the same thing. She gives us 30 seconds or less to figure out what we're going to do. If we don't make up our minds, she skips our character and assumes they did nothing. If we say we're doing something, we can't change it.
 



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