Hexblade/SpellBlade/Gish Blaster/Striker help building

Ravinsild

First Post
I had a character in 4th Edition who was the Hexblade class (straight up, it was just a class or subclass or whatever with multiclassing or anything) who was also a Drow.

The three main points of the character is 1) Pyromancer/Fire Blaster/Nuker 2) Used Sword for offense/melee 3) Drow

Would that be possible to port over whether it's a Warlock/Paladin or Paladin/Sorcerer or Fight/Wizard or whatever combination and is being a Drow viable for this sort of playstyle?

Basically the idea was that he would wade into combat and then just nuke everything with fire then cut them down when they were weakened.

His personality and "inspiration" would be: Kael'thas Sunstrider for personality and just pure offensive blaster/caster whether from WCIII or Heroes of the Storm

Illidan Stormrage for personality and "The end justifies the means" type power trip where any sacrifice was worth it "For the greater good" of stopping the BBEG even if it meant killing someone or dealing with a demonic entity for more power (and fire-power pun intended)

Vegeta for his arrogance/haughty/nobility based attitude and general snobbery and basically blasting with rapid fire beams/attack style.

So they all sort of coalesce into this character who will use whatever means neccessary to incinerate his enemies whether it's with an enchanted fire sword or just blowing them up with powerful fire magic.

Is this a thing that can be made and if it is made will it be effective or a garbage frankenstein abomination that barely functions but can maybe do some fire stuff and maybe do some sword stuff but is super fragile and/or other glaring weaknesses to the point it isn't worth it?

I am 100% aware and knowledgeable that what I am asking for is probably actually not very good. I deliberately ignoring OP super utility spells like invisibility, haste, fly, hold person, charm, suggestion etc that can end encounters in 1 turn or trivialize things in lieu of fire type damage spells. I'm 100% aware the "Chromatic Orb Fire" is probably objectively worse than "Mirror Image" but if I only have two spells slots...I'm picking the fire spell.

Basically the concept of Aramil Soveliss is Pyromancer (Fire Specialized Wizard) and Champion Fighter. The simplicity of the Champion (I attack you with my sword) + Pyromancer (I hit you with A fire spell, as long as it does fire damage I don't care.)

I know this character is not an all-star god-tier polearm great weapon master exploiting super munchkin that can solo bosses and dish out the most damage in the game. I'm also aware I'm forsaking super good utility spells. However we already have a spell caster for that. We have a Lore College bard who is probably going to specialize in enchanting magic and all that crowd control super cool OP stuff.

All Aramil Soveliss cares about is vengeance and death, bringing pain and wrath upon his enemies. Damage pure and simple.

All I want is a damage dealing Champion Fighter style meets Pyromancer Wizard style that isn't a convoluted broken action economy mess like standard Beast Master Ranger. If it at least functions on par with "this is how much a character should do damage wise per turn without being a burden to the group" that's good. If it can do better that's super great. But I'm not trying to make the most optimized character literally ever - that's already been done and I'd run one of those builds.

I'm trying to make the most optimized character of a very specific niche concept for one guy who exists in my brain that isn't a Bladesinger. He cuts you. He burns you. That is all.

Many people HAVE gotten the concept I asked for, and have answered with great answers. Now I'm just trying to parse "What do I really NEED" and "What does this best?" What does Fighter+Fire Wizard BEST for the most reliable damage that can tap into some super nova when the going gets tough?

Possible options I've discovered are:

1 or 2 levels of Fighter
Dips into Paladin
Warlock
Sorcerer

Dexterity based Dueling or possibly TWF (If fighter). I'm not sure how much Paladin helps or how valueable smite provides.

I'm thinking Sorcerer/Warlock maybe 14/6 or something with a Blade or Chain boon? I'm basically just trying to sort out the best way to make the most out of my "common rounds". Any insight into the most DPR per round per level options (TWF with Extra attack for 3 attacks or Cantrip GFB every round or what). Basically I know my options, I know my general idea and how to pull it together now I just want to tighten it down to the most optimal way to build this specific combination of classes (Fighter/Paladin/Sorcerer/Warlock options which 2 or 3 combinations based on auto attacks or spell melee cantrips or what).

Appreciate the insight!
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Redthistle

Explorer
Supporter
Caveat: I'm thinking "out loud" below, as I'm having to consider things you've already thought about, but hang in there. I've got answers for you at the end.

1. Regarding the race: Take a look at the Revenant subrace for possible ideas about your character's race.

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/gothic-heroes

is a free download.

"Basically the concept of Aramil Soveliss is Pyromancer (Fire Specialized Wizard) and Champion Fighter. The simplicity of the Champion (I attack you with my sword) + Pyromancer (I hit you with A fire spell, as long as it does fire damage I don't care.)"

Mind you, the survey following the release of this Unearthed Arcana article showed little enthusiasm for the subrace:

"Turning to the Gothic Heroes installment of Unearthed Arcana, the results showed that the revenant subrace had quite a bit of dissatisfaction. The concept seems fine, but I wonder if presenting a plot point as the basis for a race is a good idea.The concept of a revenant character might work better as a DM’s tool, rather than as a race a character might pick."

Otoh, things about it might be a good fit for your concept.

Since this is in the line of a mind-itch you've just got to scratch, I imagine you've also considered playing a tiefling, which gives you immediate access to Hellish Rebuke. Revenant is available as a tiefling subrace, per the UA article. Sadly, this subrace option as described in the article would prevent anyone from being able to use Hellish Rebuke with the revenant.

2. Regarding the multi-classes, and getting the most bang for the character levels, you mention Extra Attack.

Remember, the Extra Attack feature is tied to class level, not to character level. Which class/archetype level are you pulling that from?

It takes 5 class levels of Fighter to access that, which is as early as possible for any class (Barbarian, Monk, Paladin, and Ranger also gain it at 5th). If you do include Fighter, I'd suggest taking 6 levels to also gain the 6th-level ASI, as you may be losing an ASI or two from other multi-class selections.

So, 6 levels of Fighter wins out for Extra Attack, gaining 3 ASI bumps. 8 levels of Paladin would be the alternative, gaining Extra Attack but only 2 ASI in that range.

[One other spot where Extra Attack can be gained: Bard's College of Valor at 6th level, but this class doesn't offer much else for this character concept.]

3. Fiery and blasty cantrips, delightful for their available-every-round usefulness, if not so much for their punctuated (as in not-every-level) damage increases (which are at least tied to PC-level, not class-level), are restricted somewhat by class.

[Cantrips: Cleric - Flame Strike; Sorcerer and Wizard - Fire Bolt and Shocking Grasp; Warlock - Eldritch Blast].

The shared spell-casting ability of Charisma beats either Cleric (Wisdom) or Wizard (Intelligence), so the choice is between Sorcerer and Warlock.

4. Taking ASI potential into account again, however you split the levels between them, I'd do it in 4-level blocks to avoid losing any ASI opportunities. These take up 12 levels, then, which with 6 levels of Fighter leaves 2 levels available for Paladin (again, Charisma for spell-casting).

So, the class/level options for Aramil Soveliss:

Fighter 6 / Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 4 / Warlock 8
Fighter 6 / Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 8 / Warlock 4
Paladin 8 / Sorcerer 4 / Warlock 8
Paladin 8 / Sorcerer 8 / Warlock 4

5. The tough nut to crack is which class to chose at which character level. It's easy to see why you sought counsel for this question.

Well, for reasons of flavor, imho, I'd take Sorcerer before Warlock, as the idea of a character beginning with some innate casting ability that generates into a hunger for more, leading to bargaining for those extra magics, just makes an intuitive sense.

How to fit Paladin into that power evolution may be a story-line problem, since its possible to lose Paladin abilities if one becomes an oath-breaker. Not a problem if you are commanded by your deity to clean up some subset of the world's scum.

If that's not the case, where is that Blackguard build, anyway? It might just fit the character concept better than a Paladin.

[About that Blackguard thing ...

RhaezDaevan had posted a potential Blackguard (variant Paladin) class (with 3 Archetypes: Shadow Master, Bone Lord, and Fiendish Champion) here on ENWorld:

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?367324-Blackguard#ixzz3FT5eR6G3

which may be useful to your considerations on this.]

6. So, using either the Blackguard or the Paladin (each preferable to Fighter because of the character concept), this is where my thoughts take me:

PC Level 1: Sorcerer 1. Something in Aramil's life has wreaked a devastating injustice. It has jolted him out of whatever worldview he had before, and launched him on a new trajectory - he's becoming a Payload of Payback. This circumstance has also broken open whatever inhibitions he's had before about using those magical feelings he's sometimes felt simmering under his skin, so to speak.
Re Sorcerous Origin: Draconic Bloodline. Because fire damage.

PC Level 2: Warlock 1. Sorcery is nice but kind of squishy. There's got to be a more structured way to get to the power you want, and getting the vengeance you seek is worth whatever promises you have to make to this sulfury thing (if heading toward Blackguard) or leafy hipster (if you think you can make it to Paladin) that's willing to bargain.

PC Levels 3 - 7: Blackguard or Paladin levels 1-to-5. You're on a mission, and pleased with the painful smitey things you can do now. 5 levels of this get you Extra Attack, with your first ASI coming through at character level 6.

PC Levels 8 and up: 3 more levels of Blackguard/Paladin, with 10 levels to split between Sorcerer and Warlock as desired.

I'll be interested to see other ideas on this concept, and of course, to find out what you finally decide on.








 
Last edited:

Ravinsild

First Post
A few things to note: Our DM had essentially race locked us into playing Elves. He then said Half-Elves don't exist because this world doesn't have humans.

So basically he's a Drow for 2 reasons. 1) in 4th edition they were one of the best races for a Hexblade and 2) I'm race locked by DM to pure elf so I chose Drow because it's the only elf to get a bump to Charisma.

Second Point: Warlocks with Pact Blade boon gain at 5th Warlock level access to the Eldritch Invocation Thirsting Blade which is essentially the Extra Attack feature. This is why going 5 deep into Paladin or Fighter may not even be necessary.

Third Point: I was strongly considering the Unearthed Arcana Warlock Pact the Undying Light which gives a boost to radiant damage as well as fire damage which apparently stacks with the Draconic Origin fire bump.

I was going to reflavor Draconic Origin as a Phoenix Origin and with the Undying Light his pact would be made with the Phoenix whose blood runs in his veins (should I choose that pact) all born from some distant past when (in this home brew campaign) the Drow were still High Elves and the Phoenix basically puts him in a situation where if he wants vengeance for his kingdom falling he must swear to return to the surface and live by the morals of good or else it will shut off the pact and access to some of his magic or something.

However you're not wrong about the class break down. I was kind of leaning toward full spell caster and just spamming green flame blade for melee flavor because I think that outweighs melee attacking overall in addition to needing to take dips into Fighter or Paladin for a weapon fighting style and being locked into Dex either dueling or TWF. Although something like Fighter 2 with Action Surge plus haste plus TWF could be something like:

Action 1: Melee Attack Extra Attack From Thirsting Blade: Melee Attack Bonus Action: Off-Hand Attack Action Surge: Melee Attack Haste Action: Melee Attack to lay the smack down.

Although TWF sort of kills any spellcasting due to needing a free hand so it may just be dueling or no dip because actual melee attacks may fall off in term of damage over just using melee cantrips.
 

Vulf

First Post
Drow works just fine with Pact of the Blade Warlock.
Which was probably based on the Hexblade Warlocks from 4th.

Fiend Patron fits with Kael'thas getting his Fel magics from the Burning Legion.

Though if you want to be less evil, Archfey Patron. Bladesong Wizard is an option, but High Elf fits better than Drow for the Intelligence score.
 
Last edited:

WarpedAcorn

First Post
I'm going to post a build from someone else here on the forum. I haven't played this build, but I am really looking forward to trying it out (it will be my next character). It *might* fit what you're looking for, or maybe give you some ideas. One thing I might also suggest for your build (and is included below) is to consider Sorcerer for Metamagics. I'm not sure whether you wanted to be a Dex or Str based melee guy, but if you go Metamagic route then I would suggest getting a big 2-Hander and using that, then you can Quicken spells via Metamagic to both cast and swing (I.E. soften them up with Burning Hands and then Slashy-Slashy).

Variant-Warlock 13/Fighter 3/Sorcerer 4Pact of the Blade: Fiend (Greatsword pact weapon)
Battlemaster: Maneuvers are great to have, and recharge on a short rest.
Shadow Origin: I like the flavor, and Strength of the Grave is an amazing Gish ability.
Stat Priority Heavy: Str/CHA>CON>DEX>WIS/INT
Stat Priority Light: CHA>DEX>CON>WIS/INT


Specifics
13 levels in warlock gives you:
-Three 5th level spells per short rest
-Six invocations
-Dark One's Blessing (the temp HP really helps in melee)
-Dark One's Own Luck
-Fiendish Resistance (Change your resistance every short rest)
-6th and 7th level spells, once per day.
Invocations:
You get six(6) invocations, but Agonizing Blast, Lifedrinker, and Thirsting blade are mostly required. Repelling Blast greatly increases your utility, while fiendish vigor can be used for a guaranteed 8 temp HP at the start of every fight.


Fighter 3 gives:
-Great Weapon Fighting
-Second Wind
-Action Surge
-Four Superiority dice for; Riposte, Precision Strike, Maneuvering strike (personal preference)


Sorcerer 4 gives:
-Three 2nd and Four 1st level spell slots (1st level spell slots for hex!)
-Darkvision, and cast Darkness for 1 sorcery point
-Strength of the Grave
-Four Sorcery points MetaMagic; Quickened spell + any


Feats:
Level 1: Warcaster
Level 4: Heavy Armor proficiency (recommended to start as fighter 1, otherwise you're stuck with medium armor!)
Level 8: Great Weapon Master
Level 12: ASI OR Resilient, choosing CON (proficiency AND advantage makes hex more reliable)
Level 4 (sorc): ASI
ALTERNATIVE!
Instead of a 4th sorcerer level, you may opt to take a 14th level in warlock. The basic trade here is Hurl Through Hell(1 round of removal + 10d10psychic) vs ASI. I personally do not care for long rest abilities, and though HTH is strong, it doesn't fit my RP.


House Rules that increase effectiveness:
-Temporary HP stacks, once per source.
-Dark One's Blessing stacks (RP wise, being blessed with vigor for sacrificing enemies to your fiend seems like it would stack)
-Warcaster removes disadvantage from spell attacks made in melee range
-Add casting modifier to damage from spells (We use this when someone is missing from the group. The added damage is not QUITE as good as the missing person, but allows fights to remain hard.)
-Retrain a feat; We allow retraining within reason. For example, medium armor proficiency retrained to heavy armor proficiency. DM required 2 sessions of wearing Heavy Armor during combat (and taking the disadvantages/lack of casting that comes with it). If your DM agrees to this, feel free to start as a sorcerer/warlock instead of fighter. Take medium armor proficiency before Warcaster.


If you don't want to spend a feat for armor, Armor of Shadows gives you access to a free Mage Armor. You may want to play with dex weapons if you go this route. This moves all feat selections up, and gives you another ASI. If you do not need 2 (3 if you skipped resilient) ASIs, by all means take HTH.








Basic play:
I'm in love with this character, and though it will never be as strong as a Warlock 2/Sorc 18, the versatility and damage output are satisfying. Eldritch Blast can be used defensively by pushing enemies away from injured allies. Lifedrinker/ThirstyBlade/GreatWeaponMaster&Fighter ensure your melee stays up to snuff.


Rules to Know:
PHB 164; Pact magic slots can cast sorcerer spells and vice versa
PHB 202; You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
Maneuvers are NOT bonus actions. They're modifiers you may spend, much like meta magic.
Spells You'll Need
-Armor of Agathys
-Shield
-Hex
-Hellish Rebuke


Engagements at range;
-Eldritch Blast/Hex.
-If you're looking to thin some numbers, Twin-spell Hex onto the two weakest in range, then smack em with an Eldritch Blast. Still at range next turn? Congrats, quicken spell Eldritch Blast, regular cast Eldritch Blast**.


Engagements at melee:
-Armor of Agathys goes on for melee engagements.
-Shield (+5 AC, immune to Magic Missile) is your reaction when you need to survive more than you need to do damage, otherwise Hellish Rebuke and Riposte* are your friends.


Advanced Play:


Precision Strike + Great Weapon Master + Action Surge: One of the biggest "Blow Your Load" combos available to us. Each attack receives +10 dmg, and the -5 to attack is almost entirely negated by adding a 1d8 to the roll. Assuming 18 strength (+4) and level 5 (+3 proficiency), and assuming all attacks hit, the damage output is [14+2d6(reroll 1/2)] *4 This gives us a MINIMUM of 64 damage, where you rolled a 1 on your d6 8 times. If you've got Hex on the enemy to be hit(It's a bonus action, so you should!), add another d6 to each hit. At 12, add CHA to each hit. If you kill an enemy OR crit during these 4 attacks, take another one! Though, you're out of superiority dice, so you'll have to settle for 7+2d6(reroll 1/2) +d6 (hex).


Quicken Spell + Eldritch Blast+ Melee attack: Melee Attack first, then use a quickened eldritch blast to push the enemy away, or vice versa. This can be amplified with Great Weapon Master and Maneuvers.
-Ally surrounded by 2 enemies. Quicken Eldritch Blast, push first enemy 10 feet back for EACH hit. Use Maneuvering strike on second enemy to allow ally free disengage.




*Note the synergy here. Hellish Rebuke triggers when you're hit, while riposte triggers when they miss.
** Don't forget to add 1d6 EACH time it hits. If you took repelling blast, be careful not to push them out of range
Sorcerer spell slots are amazing. Shield and Hex can both be cast through level 1 slots, while level 2 slots can be turned into sorcery points for more quickened eldritch blasts.


Notes;
-Champion/Eldritch Knight archetypes are much less useful overall
-Any sorcerous origin is viable. Pick whatever suits your RP
-Spells are free game. Eldritch Blast is your bread and butter cast, so your spell choices are personal!
-The basis for this was inspired by WoW's Lich King. The spells I choose favor cold/necrotic, meaning finger of death is the only option for 7th level spell.
-Stripped bare, this is an Off-tank Heavy with spell versatility.
 

Ravinsild

First Post
I've decided on something like 6 Warlock/14 Sorcerer purely using melee to spam stuff like Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade cantrips. I will go with Chain. My reasoning: The Extra Attack and Lifedrinker don't add up in damage compared to just Green Flame Blading every turn. Any interesting cantrips I could take from Tome I can pretty much get from Sorcerer and Warlock anyway (Firebolt mostly, and Green-Flame Blade and Booming Blade) plus Create Bonfire from Sorcerer etc... so I would have an Imp or Pseudo-dragon familiar more like a World of Warcraft Warlock.

This gives me plenty of casting power as a Sorcerer in addition to 7 Warlock spells, 2 spell slots that recharge on short rests up to 3rd level (Two Fireballs on short Rest :^) ) and 3 Warlock Invocations like Armor of Shadows, Agonizing Blast (for when it's immune to fire and I need an alternate damage cantrip that isn't Firebolt for monsters not in melee range like a flying fire elemental or something) and Beguiling Influence for some free skills or w/e.

So for this package I get a dope familiar, some short rest spell slots, some invocations that provide utility or otherwise and 7 Warlock Spells (Maybe Hex or something who knows :^) plus 14 levels of Sorcerer for more blasting and lots of Green-Flame Blade spamming. Perhaps not as exciting as Extra Attacks and so forth but ultimately achieving the goals I have for the character.

Woo!
 

Remove ads

Top