Pathfinder 1E [INTEREST/RECRUIT] - Crowns of Ice

Queenie

Queen of Everything
Another question before I weigh in. I'm not even entirely sure how to put this. Are we all starting off as our own clans / houses / whatevers at the beginning of play? We're all working against each other towards ... something... Like working towards the throne in game of thrones? So there may be a time when we might work together but generally we're on our own sides here? Unlike a traditional game where we might be working as a whole party towards a goal (even if we have our own motive).

Does that make sense as two separate scenarios? Making a lot of these decisions will depend on the basic concept here of the game.


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Jago

Explorer
Queenie has the right of it: that will seriously affect how I design my character if we're only (generally) working together when it's mutually beneficial as opposed to being "The Party" through thick-and-thin.

Especially would factor into how PCs connect to one another (makes it more feasible and fun to play as actual Rivals if we legitimately are antagonists to one another). I'd be down for either style, I'd still love it if we had these competing houses and groups needing to unite despite differences and all that jazz just as much as I'd enjoy full on player sabotage.


Another Mechanical Question; Seems like Point Buy is the name of the game, but how much? 10, 15, 20 ..?
 

tglassy

Adventurer
My thoughts on races and dragons. I think human only. No weird races. In fact, maybe they don't even exist in this setting. Makes everything easier.

As for dragons, perhaps it's like game of thrones. Dragons existed a long time ago. But there are those who are still born from ancient dragon bloodlines. My character can be one, and that is where they get their magic. They can even be one of the last known dragon bloodlines.

I'd like him to eventually become a dragon disciple, if we get to that point. Would that be possible, or are prestige classes not allowed?
 

Archon Basileus

First Post
You guys are right. We should define where characters will stand first.

I’d recommend we go for a non-party model, where each character builds its own objectives. If anyone wants to build a character in allegiance with other player characters, that would be ok. Nevertheless, I imagine that these kinds of games work better if you all have separate agendas and might become open antagonists at some point.

As for a background motivation, it all begins with Avar becoming leaderless. Since it holds one of the most influential things, the next lord will hold a heavy influence on the selection of the next king. This has a huge impact upon the crown, since the current king is close to die and the council (a covenant of tribal lords and princes) must choose the next king. The next lord of Avar will probably have to vote for a new king. Also, his position might influence many other votes, determining the future of the kingdom as a hole.

So, you’ll be somehow fighting for the throne. At first.

The problem is that everything depends on how strong will the next king be, and what tendencies will he follow. Some might seek peace with neighboring countries (there are at least two adjacent kingdoms ready to wage war, one of them with strong claims to the throne). Others could choose to wage war. Some might adopt the new religion with fervor, while others might choose the old ways of the Pantheon. A character might therefore fight to keep his religion intact, trying to benefit a Pantheonist candidate instead of fighting himself for the throne. Another might simply try to defeat magically-inclined candidates out of prejudice against mystical arts, while another might want to support an intellectual ruler and harness resources for his own researches. Another yet might have a claim to become king, and could begin forging alliances based on it. In the end, though, it all comes back to the throne, the last decisive power.

In other words, the idea is to get Game of Thrones and think dynastic and heritage conflicts to their last consequences.

As for prestige classes, they are allowed, no problem! A dragon disciple is perfectly acceptable. We will integrate them to the scenario with ease, in the end.
 

tglassy

Adventurer
The last thing I need is how the country is set up, so I know where my character stands. A dragon blooded nobleman who wants the crown. I might be going a little too Game of Thrones with that, but there it is. Probably a 1 Fighter, 3 Sorcerer, or maybe a 2/2 split. Possibly just a 4 Sorcerer, I haven't decided.

You mentioned a King, and a Lord of Avar, and seem to suggest their different people, but I'm not sure what these titles mean, so could you describe the country for us, and what the politics look like?
 

Queenie

Queen of Everything
Based on what you've written, it seems like we'll be okay if our characters overlap classes - since we may or may not be working "together?" I was thinking sorcerer but not set on it.

I'm totally fine with all humans and I'll likely stick with human but I've played in an alternate world game where we reskinned earth with D&D races and it worked really well. It started as a Wild West game - US was human, Mexico was elves, Norse was Dwarven and so on. It's still going though now it's a world trotting League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Steampunk game, lots of fun. The reskinning was easy enough and gave the world some character. Even GoT has Giants and other creatures... It could be something that comes up later if we don't want to deal with it now. I will admit, sometimes you come across a player that makes some insane race / class combo and you just roll your eyes... But that doesn't seem likely to happen here, at least no one seems too crazy... yet ;)

As I ponder what I want to do with my character, I'm thinking to have her start out in someone else's character house / land / kingdom if someone is amenable to that. Sister would probably work best but could be daughter or someone else like that. Don't worry, she'll be married off and gone before you know it. Lol No worries if that doesn't fit in someone's story, I can adapt.


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tglassy

Adventurer
If you're going to be a Sorcerer, you could be my character's sister or daughter. You don't have to dive in to the dragon blood as much as me, but it could be there. The only thing is you'd be stuck with dragon blood for your bloodline, unless your cool with that.

I was actually thinking of making my character a widower with children anyway. Being single, he has many people vying for his attention, wanting him to marry one person or another for political reasons. He knows he will be pressured to marry eventually, but he is holding out as long as he can. He'll possibly choose the best political marriage, though he married the first time for love, and she died giving birth to his youngest child.

So, if you're his daughter, we'd have to talk ages. If you're his sister, he can be a little younger. I was thinking mid thirties, though he could be 38 with a 20 year old daughter, so it's not that big a deal. Technically, in those days, he could be as young as 36 with a 20 year old daughter. Weird to think about, but true.
 
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Queenie

Queen of Everything
That's all good by me, I love dragons ;) When you decide how old you want your character to be, that will decide sister or daughter. After that, let me know if you want to develop further backstory here or PM. This is going to be fun!


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Archon Basileus

First Post
The last thing I need is how the country is set up

Ok. I’ve been meditating about this, since we are trying to convey a certain ambience within the confines of our game. The game starts at the last breath of the Dark Ages for the tribes involved. There are several countries and independent lands, and kings might rise and fall in an alarming pace. It’s the historical age of “petty kingdoms”, if you will.

Right now, the country, so to speak, is divided in twenty different territories, all formally independent from each other. Economic and political relations make them rely on each other for protection and survival. Almost all of them have a chieftain of their own, generally a member of the noble class (a Jarl) of a rich family, even though some places might end up electing a member of the commoners (Karl) that has land, riches or armed supporters. Note that more than half these territories are mainly pantheonists (pagans), with the remnant being pagan variants or demiurgic. This is particularly important, since demiurgic areas are influenced by southern culture (from across the sea) and are prone to defend a feudal organization for the country (with unity under one king, a formal noble class, an organized army, orders of knights, and so on).

Northeast holds two other countries under the same situation. One of them is entirely pagan, though, and prone to unification under pantheonist banners. Both are dubious allies to the country where we begin, and might wage war if enough advantages are to be found. What stops them from invasion is the ongoing conflict between them and within their own frontiers.

At south, a collection of petty kingdoms sprawl throughout an expansion of planes and river valleys. Some of them are in the first stages of feudal development, already implementing religious knightly orders and a nobility scheme under a ruling king. They tend to view kings as sacred leaders, differently than the northern countries, that see it more as a station for capable leaders and commanders and less as a divinely granted position.

To the southwest we have the core of demiurgic countries. Some of them wage war against the southern petty kingdoms, others wage war against their similar counterparts. All of them have historically been the victims of sea and land invasions perpetrated by the players’ peoples.

I’ll add a map and the names for the nations soon enough. But this is mostly so you guys can conceive your characters for now.

You mentioned a King, and a Lord of Avar, and seem to suggest their different people, but I'm not sure what these titles mean, so could you describe the country for us, and what the politics look like?

I’m going as close as possible to Viking society, without losing the complexities it entails. That being said, you have three classes: Jarls (noble leaders, so to speak), Karls (freemen) and Thralls (slaves). Lords are generally found in traditional Jarl lineages, but that might change. Since this is a Dark Ages narrative, what counts the most is the power a man can amass. Legitimacy through law and tradition is important, but it might be trampled by practices and economic interests. For the most part, decisions are made by a meeting of the people (the Thing). Depending on the balance of power, the Thing will elect a Jarl for the area it occupies (each of the territories I mentioned earlier will have a collective that meets once a year, where every freeman gets a vote). Notice, though, that strong leaders with a good deal of armed men or with enough cunning might be able to trample this tradition in favor of their own desires.

As for the kings…. Well, they appear when a leader becomes rich and strong enough to influence several territories, gaining support of other leaders to himself. In that case, he might declare himself or be declared king. When such a thing happens, it’s only natural he listens to those that supported him. A king might have an entire gathering of Things for councilors, defining laws and matters of war by reuniting them all. Other kings might simply answer to a diet of Jarls that lead the territories that are his allies. Others, gathering enough power, might listen to no one, forcing their decisions through intimidation and blood. The current king has lost influence, since he’s advanced age stops him from going on raids or to make war. His sons are trying to keep his influence, but obviously each of them gather its own allies, and the future of the kingdom is uncertain. Odds are it will disappear into more petty kingdoms. Also, there are lands up north and into the south that never truly recognized the man as king, and these areas are now a constant source of conflict.

Economy works around two main assets: land and gold. It’s a lot like the kingdom of the franks at this point. Land is important, but it demands stability to produce enough. Farmers are valued, but everyone understands the importance of easy-to-carry fortunes. Coin, gold and spoils are relevant. Slaves are not only valuable but also the ones that work the land for the most part (even though there are paid workers everywhere these days).

Well, this is the bare-bones version of the idea. I’d like to hear your opinions about it. Soon enough I’ll name areas and people and present the narrative, but first I need to see if you guys agree with the scenario. There’s plenty more, but I’m trying to limit myself to the necessary for character initial work.

Also, I had a few good ideas for both pure-human and rebranding versions of the game. As the others give their opinions, I’ll set the nails on it!

EDIT: also, consider that there are several roles to be fulfilled within society that demand noblemen and freemen alike. Personal guards, political allies (Much like the twelve peers of Charlemagne – our deer paladins!), law speakers (those that proclaim laws old and new to the masses at meetings), heralds, champions, priests, etc. At some countries, the way these roles are fulfilled might change. Here, all of these positions have separate individuals for them, even though sometimes they might be absorbed or sprung around the Things.
 
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