UA Monks Introduces the Kensai and Tranquility Traditions

Leatherhead said:

In this case you are holding the weapon in such a way that you are using it to deflect incoming blows. I would count that as "wielding" because it's certainly not just holding it.
And yeah Shortsword Kensei are the way to go, which I doubt was intended.

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But the ability does not it sais :
If you make an unarmed strike as part of the Attack action on your turn and are holding a kensei weapon, you can use that weapon to defend yourself. You gain a +2 bonus to AC

For many of the other abilities it sais wield but for this one is specificly sais hold.
So when are you holding and when are you wielding ?

Great concepts, the Kensai does need some clarification: this sort of pushes the Monk chasis as far as it will go, I think...

IDK if you guys have worked out how bonkers the Kensai is.

Yes you can't use martial arts/flury of blows. You are trading up from a d8 at best two handed weapon to one that deals 1d12/2d6.

Additionally you can combo it with great weapon master and polearm master. A level 5 Kensai with PAM can attack 3 targets dealing an extra 1d4 damage to all of them and on average dealing 2 points of damage more than the way of the fist monk via a bigger weapon. That 1d4 replaces your extra attacks.

Consider (assuming 18 dex)

1d8+4/1d8+4/1d6+4 (24.5 avg)

vs

2d6+4/2d6+4/+2d4 (27)

The number are looking good so far. Its situational on the amount of attacks that hit but so is the normal monks flurry of blows/martial arts. When you spend Ki points to flurry that is better.


Additionally the way it is worded any martial weapon you are proficient with becomes a kensai weapon. Consider that with multiclassing and with an elf who picks up kensai longswords and longbows for free. Magical longswords are also a bit more common it seems than the other weapon types but at least you deal magical damage at level 6.

If you got to use martial arts/flurry of blows with Kensai weapons you just obsoleted every other monk and probably the fighter types as well in terms of damage and you could take sharpshooter and great weapon master. Things can even get more funky with rolled stats and official races having +2 wisdom now.

Zardnaar said:

Additionally you can combo it with great weapon master and polearm master. A level 5 Kensai with PAM can attack 3 targets dealing an 3xtra 1d4 damage to all of them

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AM I reading it wong ?
So the the last word in the ability that alouws you to add the d4 is attack and not atack action.
so you only add the damage to one attack if this one attack has multipe targets you add it to al of them.

If it was intended to add 1d4 to all atacks during the atack action it would say attack action at the end of that sentence not attack.

Edwin Suijkerbuijk said:

AM I reading it wong ?
So the the last word in the ability that alouws you to add the d4 is attack and not atack action.
so you only add the damage to one attack if this one attack has multipe targets you add it to al of them.

If it was intended to add 1d4 to all atacks during the atack action it would say attack action at the end of that sentence not attack.

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No I read it wrong the 1d4 is a bonus action so it doesn't combo that well with PAM and GWM.

Ok now that I had time to read more details from earlier I like the concept of the Kensei but the damage is under whelming the only nice part is I can make the weapons magical attacks at 6th outside that and that if you go 2H great sword etc you can do the most damage when using your bonus action for something besides an attack. That is assuming no feats but I am still better off with my other concept to create my build where you go fighter/Monk Ranger/Monk that was all looking at 8th-10th Level. Heck Way of the hands with a qtr staff can do more damage then a Kenesi with a Great Sword (This is assuming single target when we get to multi target we have a different discussions) mostly because pummel only applies once per target and does not scale. This also assume using the bonus actions for attack which I noted about one of the advantages of Kensei.

Now if we are talking feat and adding GWM that changes the entire dynamics of builds but looking at the first glance it is under whelming for the most part. Maybe if pummel scaled or something with levels it be better you could have it top out at 1d8 give it some flexibility and be no worse than colossal slayer or Hoard breaker in damage. Just something that would maybe bring the build to a better level.

Right now I say way of the Hand or Long Death multi classed with 3 levels of Fighter or Ranger with a short sword or Fighter with spear or staff may be a better build

I really don't see all the issues people are having with the Kensei tradition. Yes, you can't use them as Monk weapons, but you get other benefits. I see it all as being maybe less attacks a turn, for more damage. At level 5, instead of 3 attacks at 1d6+4, you could be doing two attacks at 2d6+1d4+4 each. That has much more damage potential (27.0 average). They are pretty even, as even without using pummel, 3 attacks with a Monk weapon averages out to 22.5 damage. 2 attacks with a great sword is 22. And you still have a bonus action to use for something. It may not scale all the way up to level 20, but it is at least very competitive for a lot of levels. Even a long sword in one hand is better for damage then a monk weapon until level 11 where it equals out. Then it increases in damage too. Throw in a bonus action Monk damage hand crossbow attack with Crossbow expert.

If anything, I see the Kensei giving you much more flexibility. Before, you pretty much always use your bonus action for that unarmed strike to maximize damage. Now you don't have to rely on it as much and have the opportunity to use your bonus action for other things. You COULD add a d4 to each attack. Or you could use a Ki ability such as Patient Defense or Step of the Wind. Use Sharpen your blade. Use a feat extra attack like Crossbow Expert, Dual Wield or Polearm Master. Maybe you multiclassed. You can cast a bonus action spell if you have spell casting like Hunter's Mark or Spiritual Weapon. Dash or disengage as a rogue. My point being, now you don't have to rely on using a bonus action to do a third of your damage.

I really wish I could combine this with Shadow Monk so I could bonus action teleport each turn...

It also has huge benefits for being a Monk archer. Now you have something you can use your bonus action for, adding a little extra damage on each shot.

Edwin Suijkerbuijk said:

But the ability does not it sais :
If you make an unarmed strike as part of the Attack action on your turn and are holding a kensei weapon, you can use that weapon to defend yourself. You gain a +2 bonus to AC

For many of the other abilities it sais wield but for this one is specificly sais hold.
So when are you holding and when are you wielding ?

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"Wield" isn't a rules term, it's natural language. Wield means "To hold and use." You are both holding and using the kensei weapon in order to get the +2 bonus.

Thurmas said:

I really don't see all the issues people are having with the Kensei tradition. Yes, you can't use them as Monk weapons, but you get other benefits. I see it all as being maybe less attacks a turn, for more damage. At level 5, instead of 3 attacks at 1d6+4, you could be doing two attacks at 2d6+1d4+4 each. That has much more damage potential (27.0 average). They are pretty even, as even without using pummel, 3 attacks with a Monk weapon averages out to 22.5 damage. 2 attacks with a great sword is 22. And you still have a bonus action to use for something. It may not scale all the way up to level 20, but it is at least very competitive for a lot of levels. Even a long sword in one hand is better for damage then a monk weapon until level 11 where it equals out. Then it increases in damage too. Throw in a bonus action Monk damage hand crossbow attack with Crossbow expert.

If anything, I see the Kensei giving you much more flexibility. Before, you pretty much always use your bonus action for that unarmed strike to maximize damage. Now you don't have to rely on it as much and have the opportunity to use your bonus action for other things. You COULD add a d4 to each attack. Or you could use a Ki ability such as Patient Defense or Step of the Wind. Use Sharpen your blade. Use a feat extra attack like Crossbow Expert, Dual Wield or Polearm Master. Maybe you multiclassed. You can cast a bonus action spell if you have spell casting like Hunter's Mark or Spiritual Weapon. Dash or disengage as a rogue. My point being, now you don't have to rely on using a bonus action to do a third of your damage.

I really wish I could combine this with Shadow Monk so I could bonus action teleport each turn...

It also has huge benefits for being a Monk archer. Now you have something you can use your bonus action for, adding a little extra damage on each shot.

Click to expand...

Most monks do 2x 1d8 + 1d6 at 5th level spear or qtr staff 2h attack and then unarmed strike gives you 24.5 also note you only get 27 if you hit two targets pummel only applies to the first attack to the same target so if it the same target they both do 24.5 at 8th level assuming max dex it passes it up and stays ahead from there.

Kensai is worded shockingly bad. Its as clear as mud.

You lose your martial arts ability when using your kensai weapon (meaning at best your unarmed attacks when you flurry or substitute an attack during the attack action with an unarmed strike deal [1 + Str damage], and you dont get the bonus action attack).

You're better off just going a Vuman OHM monk, taking GWM and Weapon master as your feats at 1st and 4th, and using the greatword as your attack action (plus GWM) twice and then flurrying (for 1+Str) twice (and pushing them flat with OHM ability on those attacks). You can even spam stunning fist on all 4 attacks.

Here is my take at the Kensai:

Path of the Kensei (3rd level):

When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you learn to extend your knowledge of the martial arts beyond the standard array of monk weapons.

Select one martial or simple weapon without the Heavy quality, other than the lance. This weapon is now treated as a Monk weapon for you. In addition, when you attack with the weapon you chose with this ability, you may replace the weapon damage die with 1d10 unless the weapon also has the reach quality. At 11th level in this class, the increased damage die increases to 2d6. At 17th level in this class it increases to 2d8.

In addition chose one of the following options:

1) Fighting style: Select one of the Archery, Dueling or Great weapon fighting styles.
2) Dual weapon kata: When you are not wearing armor or using a shield, and wield two Monk weapons at the same time, you gain +1 to AC.

One with the Blade (6th level)

Retain the Magic weapons ability.

Remove Precise strike, and add the Stare Down ability (fluffed as a 'Weapon Kata' or 'Stare down' or pulling your attack at the last second, however you want to describe it). As an action pick a single target that can see you within 60'. That target must pass a [DC 8+Wis+Prof] Wis save or be frightened of you (the target can re-roll the save at the end of each turn to end the condition, becoming immune for 24 hours on a save).

Sharpen the Blade (11th level)

Replace with a variant of the Unnerring accuracy ability:

Unnering accuracy: You may spend 1 Ki point before making an attack with a monk weapon to make the attack with advantage to the attack roll.

Unnerring accuracy (17th level)

Replace with the Deadly strike ability:

Deadly Strike: When you use your Unnerring accuracy ability, and both attack rolls would hit your target, the attack is a critical hit.

Thoughts?