Just for fun: What;s youyr favorite Wiz build

Greenfield · Dec 21, 2016

This is a challenge of sorts.

Build a Wizard (multi-class and PRC allowed).

The game is D&D 3.5. Only the PHB is allowed for spells and feats, only the DMG is allowed for items and PRCs.

Ability scores are a 32 point buy using the point buy rules in the DMG.

Gear/wealth is limited to 19k (the recommended value in the Wealth per Level table)

Magic items crafted are still counted at full market value, even though they cost only half as much to make yourself.

Oh, and spelling and punctuation count. The time starts now.

Dandu · Dec 22, 2016

Wizard 7/Lore Master 10/Archmage 3

But for power, use Red Wizard of Thay.

Greenfield · Dec 22, 2016

Dandu said:
Wizard 7/Lore Master 10/Archmage 3

But for power, use Red Wizard of Thay.

Any advice on stats? Skills? Feats? Items?

Oh, I forgot to mention something as well: I'm not looking for the 20 level build. Thought I said 7th level, which is consistent with the wealth-per-level number I tossed in

Just read my post again and realized that I forgot that.

Dandu · Dec 22, 2016

Stats: STR 10, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 16, WIS 10, CHA 10 (Or just dump STR and CHA for more INT, CON, or DEX if you want more power.)

Feats: Improved Initiative, Spell Focus: Conjuration, Spell Focus: Transmutation, Extend Spell, Silent Spell.

Items: Handy Haversack, Boots of Elvenkind, Headband of Intellect, Amulet of Health, Gloves of Dexterity.

Greenfield · Dec 22, 2016

What's your opinion on Gray Elf as a racial choice for Wiz?

Costs you Con and Str, but bumps Dex and Int. Costs a feat and a skill point per level (4 at first).

Let's think about the stats:

STR 10 costs 2 points
CON 14 costs 6 points
DEX 16 costs 10 points
INT 16 costs 10 points
WIS 10 costs 2 points
Cha 10 costs 2 points

Applying the Gray Elf modifiers to that you get:

STR 8
CON 12
DEX 18
INT 18
Wis 10
CHA 10.

Since stats up to 14 cost one for one (starts at 8 base), you can buy those up a bit in that range, and let them get knocked down more or less for free.

Stats 15 and 16 cost 6 (for the 14 base) plus 2 per point, so you don't want to buy into that range if the ability is getting dropped.

Stats 17 and 18 cost 10 (for the 16 base) plus 3 per point. So an 18 normally costs 16 points, or half of your 32 point budget. Usually not worth it.

The Gray Elf build I suggested above would cost 40 points bought straight. If you can live with the relatively poor CON and the feeble Strength it's a great deal.

The question is, is it a good enough deal to give up the Human advantages, the bonus Feat and the extra Skills.

The Skills even out though, because of the Int bump. So really all it costs is the Feat.

Worth it?

Dandu · Dec 23, 2016

I personally prefer the flexibility of the human bonus feat, but there's also not as many great feats in the PHB, so you don't lose as much. The human's bonus skill point is made up for by the Grey Elf's higher INT. I prefer a 14 CON minimum on my characters, but if you feel comfortable with 12 CON, then sure, go for it.

Greenfield · Dec 23, 2016

I like flexibility as well. Understand, I'm not building a character right now, just asking for people's ideas on builds.

It's easy to plan a powerful/useful level 20 character. Everyone's a just-this-side-of-Godzilla at level 20, compared to the game world at large. Level 7 seemed a good, medium range to think about.

Your choice of gear is pretty straightforward, and looks like a good set. Feats are interesting.

Improved Initiative really only matters in the first round. After that cyclic initiative makes it meaningless. I guess it's nice to be able to get your defensive or buffing spells up early.

I noticed that you didn't do very much about AC, other than Dex. I'd figured that the minimum AC to even be on the battlefield is about Level plus 14, with three or four points higher needed if the character is going to be in the thick of things. Your build is AC 14 (Dex), plus whatever buffs or defensive spells he/she can cast. If we presume that Mage Armor is already up, a Shield spell and that Dex puts the PC at AC 22. Acceptable, but barely.

If I was going to invest in an item, it would be a Natural Armor amulet. The Wiz can already get Deflection, Armor, Shield and Dodge bonuses from various spells. NA is the one common category that's out of his/her normal reach.

Alter self, of course, can change that. There are a number of medium Humanoids with Natural Armor whose for could be assumed. The top of the list is the Troglodyte, with a +6 NA bonus, but his stench penalizes your own party so it's a "desperate measures" kind of thing.

What's your preferred defensive spell set, keeping in mind that the PC is also supposed to be participating in a conflice. (I mean, anyone can run/hide or spend the entire battle buffing up.)

Dandu · Dec 23, 2016

You don't get the Stench (Ex) ability from Alter Self.

You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth.

My preferred defensive buffs are Mage Armor and Alter Self. Use a Disguise Self spell or Hat of Disguise to look human. A Shield spell is ok, needed, though a Mithril Bucker is reatively cheap and provides shield AC as well. You can even add enhancements like Fortification.

If I was going to invest in an item, it would be a Natural Armor amulet.

The neck slot is really better used for Con bosting items. Better saves, more HP, a boost to Concentration checks. You have plenty of ways to gain AC. Naturl Armor isn't the best AC to boost anuways. Does not apply to touch attacks, for example.

If you're really worried about getting hit, learn Obscuring Mist, Web, Glitterdust, and/or Pyrotechnics. Blinding the enemy, cover, and concealment mean that the enemy may not even get a chance to test your AC.

Greenfield · Dec 23, 2016

Yeah, it's a funny thing. Mithral chain shirt has no armor check penalty. Neither does the Mithral buckler. And since the non-proficiency penalty for armor and shields is to double the armor check penalty and apply it to a lot of other things, everyone is effectively proficient with them.

As for natural armor bonus v the common AC bonuses, only Deflection and Dodge apply to Touch AC. So it's not that huge a difference. The difference is that a Wiz can get Deflection (Protection from Evil/Good/Law?chaos), Dodge (Haste or Cat's Grace), Armor (Mage Armor) and Shield (Shield spell) bonuses from 1st or 2nd level spells.

The Natural Armor bonuses that can be gained from Alter Self stack with the NA items, unlike most of the other bonus types from spells, so I think that counts in its favor.

But what the heck, it's a game, and there's room for lots of different ideas and opinions.

Concealment spells are great, as far as protecting the caster is concerned. Many of these, however, can shut down or hamper your own party at least as badly as they mess with the enemy.

Summon Monster spells, cast while Invisible, is a pretty good offense/defense combination.

Casting a Silent Image of an Obscuring Mist is a cute tactic. If you can communicate to your allies that it's an illusuion then they have a really good chance of not being hampered. And since the enemy doesn't get a Save until they have reason to believe that what they're seeing isn't real, there's a good chance that they won't have a chance of seeing through it. (I know that sounded odd, but it makes sense, sort of.)

And Glitterdust? The Save v Blindness on that one is so feeble it hardly counts as an offensive spell. Its best use is to shut down the Invisible caster throwing Summon Monster spells. (Listen check to get the approximate area, then light them up.)