D&D 5E Throwing Weapons is Cool! So why is it weak?

Plutancatty said:

I don't really see how it could be broken for Rogues since even if they dip in martial classes to get more attacks it's at most 3d4+ whatever sneak attack d6s they have, which would still only be on one attack, and they would lose 5 levels' worth of said d6s

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I didn't say it would be broken for rogues. I said it would be easy to balance, especially for rogues. So thrown weapons would either have the advantage of a shield or Two Weapon Fighting, compared to a bow.

I don't care if thrown weapons aren't as effective in the real world, though; rule of cool. Throwing daggers are cool.


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Blue said:

As a side note, donning your shield is goverened under Getting Into and Out of Armor (PHB 146), not interacting with an object.

This isn't saying don't do it, just know what rules you are changing.

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Yes, I know. But stowing the bow and unsheathing the longsword would be object interactions, and require multiple rounds to complete--under RAW today, at the end of the first round you've got a shield on and your bow on your back, but your other hand is empty. If you make an opportunity attack, it will be a punch, not a sword cut.

On the second round you can draw your sword and attack, but you've still got that gap in between that some DMs might find annoying/unaesthetic/confusing.

If there were a Feat for thrown weapons I would hope it would do more than just raise their DPR. I would want it to also impact tactics.

Elfcrusher said:

If there were a Feat for thrown weapons I would hope it would do more than just raise their DPR. I would want it to also impact tactics.

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I agree.

But what tactics?

mellored said:

I agree.

But what tactics?

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How about something non-combat: you can perform trick shots to do things like put out candles, cut ropes, press buttons and levers, jam mechanisms, and the like. Basically Thaumaturgy with small objects.

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Orrrr....something like the Monk's "Deflect Missiles", but only for thrown objects below a certain weight (daggers, axes, molotov cocktails, etc.)? That wouldn't really change tactics, as it's reactive, but it would still be a nice touch. It would make me want to take it.

I think thrown weapons should have a chain attached. You could use said chain to pull something to you a crate,a goblin or pull you to something a tree, a ogre. You could also use a chain to grapple or disarm, hell even trip.

Chains are cool bro.

The UA School of Swords Bard class has a feature like that on throwing daggers with panache and precision. Just sayin'...

mellored said:

I agree.

But what tactics?

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As was said above, the new tactics would mostly rotate around making yourself more mobile and/or impeding your opponent's movement.

Elfcrusher said:

How about something non-combat: you can perform trick shots to do things like put out candles, cut ropes, press buttons and levers, jam mechanisms, and the like. Basically Thaumaturgy with small objects.

EDIT:

Orrrr....something like the Monk's "Deflect Missiles", but only for thrown objects below a certain weight (daggers, axes, molotov cocktails, etc.)? That wouldn't really change tactics, as it's reactive, but it would still be a nice touch. It would make me want to take it.

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Hitting small objects flying at you at high speed with another tiny object flying at high speed while trying to dodge the first tiny object would so not be allowed at my table.

Azurewraith said:

I think thrown weapons should have a chain attached. You could use said chain to pull something to you a crate,a goblin or pull you to something a tree, a ogre. You could also use a chain to grapple or disarm, hell even trip.

Chains are cool bro.

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I believe chains were fervently hated in 3.5 for a reason, although they are indeed cool. Anyway, attaching chains to weapons would make them less accurate/do less damage because of weight, and who's to say you can't attach chains to weapons without a feat anyway?

Corwin said:

The UA School of Swords Bard class has a feature like that on throwing daggers with panache and precision. Just sayin'...

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Went to see that once you mentioned it, but didn't really strike me as a "master thrower" feature.

In conclusion, what do we want fromm this feat/houserule?

1) The general consensus is to simply allow all characters to treat thrown weapons as ammunition (drawing each weapon can be done for free as part of the attack).

2) We say that weapon throwers should be allowed (through the feat) higher range (or increased short range ) for thrown weapons to allow them to stay out of melee more easily. In alternative, they should be made more mobile or cause enemies they hit to become less mobile to avoid melee. (Another idea was to have attacks of opportunity trigger with ranged weapons when an enemy came within 5ft IIRC, and also to not impose disadvantage with thrown attacks when enemies are within 5ft)

3) Additional attacks (maybe limited to the "small dice" weapons such as daggers and throwing hammers) when throwing weapons with two hands.

4) Miscellaneous suggestion: adding "non dpr" features such as improved interaction at range with objects, being able to apply conditions through weapon attacks by attaching chains, deflecting ranged attacks with thrown attacks.

That's about all the "crunch talk" we got so far, I think... not home right now, so I'll maybe draft a version of the feat myself when I get back (or several versions).

Plutancatty said:

Went to see that once you mentioned it, but didn't really strike me as a "master thrower" feature.

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Hrm. Don't recall saying the feature had anything to do with making you a "master thrower". But it does start off saying, "This favorite trick of knife throwers..." and proceeds to provide a decent benefit for someone who wants to be super accurate throwing a dagger. That's all. Not sure what you were hoping for. Nor what you expected it to say based on my previous post. But them's the brakes, one supposes.

Plutancatty said:

As was said above, the new tactics would mostly rotate around making yourself more mobile and/or impeding your opponent's movement.

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How about something like:
When you are wielding a weapon with the Thrown property, you may make a single attack with it as a Bonus Action.
That would allow you to move, including dashing or disengaging, while still getting an attack off. As well as generally increasing the attacks you can make with them.

Hitting small objects flying at you at high speed with another tiny object flying at high speed while trying to dodge the first tiny object would so not be allowed at my table.

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I believe that that suggestion was more along the lines of catching thrown objects and being able to throw them back.

In conclusion, what do we want fromm this feat/houserule?

1) The general consensus is to simply allow all characters to treat thrown weapons as ammunition (drawing each weapon can be done for free as part of the attack).

2) We say that weapon throwers should be allowed (through the feat) higher range (or increased short range ) for thrown weapons to allow them to stay out of melee more easily. In alternative, they should be made more mobile or cause enemies they hit to become less mobile to avoid melee. (Another idea was to have attacks of opportunity trigger with ranged weapons when an enemy came within 5ft IIRC, and also to not impose disadvantage with thrown attacks when enemies are within 5ft)

3) Additional attacks (maybe limited to the "small dice" weapons such as daggers and throwing hammers) when throwing weapons with two hands.

4) Miscellaneous suggestion: adding "non dpr" features such as improved interaction at range with objects, being able to apply conditions through weapon attacks by attaching chains, deflecting ranged attacks with thrown attacks.

That's about all the "crunch talk" we got so far, I think... not home right now, so I'll maybe draft a version of the feat myself when I get back (or several versions).

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How do people feel about 'enabler' abilities rather than just direct bonuses?
For example would a simple: You may treat a weapon with the Thrown property as a Ranged weapon when making a ranged weapon attack with it. be worthwhile as a feat property, subclass ability or houserule?
(Allowing you to use the sharpshooter feat benefits with thrown weapons etc.) - (Perhaps make it any ranged weapon so that you could use Crossbow Expert with thrown weapons.)