I'm sick of Kickstarters

Take this with a grain of salt, as I myself have ran several Kickstarters and thus have some investment in the funding model, but speaking from my perspective, the Kickstater model really does allow a greater diversity of games in the market. I, for one, would never have gotten a foothold in the industry without it.

And, perhaps surprisingly, Kickstarter has a pretty good track record for projects delivering rewards as promised. In my own experience, I have backed 50-ish projects now, and only one has failed to deliver. (To be fair, many of them did deliver later than originally promised.)

Three or four years ago I would have said it was only a matter of time until the Kickstarter bubble bursts, but by now I'm changed my views. I think the model is here to stay. If nothing else, as a publisher, Kickstarter lets you gauge the level of interest in a game before ordering a print run. This means you're less likely to guess incorrectly and end up with thousands of dollars of stock in books that aren't selling. That itself is a pretty huge advantage of the model (from the publisher perspective, anyway).

JeffB said:

My disappointments essentially boil down to- took awhile to receive something I didn't end up thinking was very good and wouldn't use. Had I seen the products in a store, and gave them a preview? They would have been re-shelved.

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That's helpful. Thanks. Quality of content is tough to predict on a blind purchase. Some of the Kickstarters I've studied, like one of Dan Coleman's, offer previews or even a free, sample adventure module. Dan takes a savvy marketer's approach. It lets potential buyers see the quality of content and editing.

Poor organization, lots of typos, bad grammar, and messy or incomplete stats? No thanks. But the quality of the actual story is more difficult to gauge--the story just may not be my thing. The seller has to nail the adventure description in the sales copy.

L R Ballard said:

That's helpful. Thanks. Quality of content is tough to predict on a blind purchase. Some of the Kickstarters I've studied, like one of Dan Coleman's, offer previews or even a free, sample adventure module. Dan takes a savvy marketer's approach. It lets potential buyers see the quality of content and editing.



Poor organization, lots of typos, bad grammar, and messy or incomplete stats? No thanks. But the quality of the actual story is more difficult to gauge--the story just may not be my thing. The seller has to nail the adventure description in the sales copy.

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I've only backed Kickstarters for pretty well proven folks with good track records of delivery, and that's worked so far...

Parmandur said:

I've only backed Kickstarters for pretty well proven folks with good track records of delivery, and that's worked so far...

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That's prudent, discerning. Like Morrus said, projects will be available for purchase later if they're funded. Maybe folks should wait to learn the community's opinion on EN World before buying from a first-time Kickstarter.

L R Ballard said:

That's prudent, discerning. Like Morrus said, projects will be available for purchase later if they're funded. Maybe folks should wait to learn the community's opinion on EN World before buying from a first-time Kickstarter.

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Exactly; for instance, I backed the Fourth Printing of DCC, because the value was good, and Goodman has a track record of eventual delivery.

Just curious. Do you get your money back if they don’t deliver?

Sent from my SM-G900P using EN World mobile app

KahlessNestor said:

Just curious. Do you get your money back if they don’t deliver?

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No. Most of the ones that fail are due to poor budgeting, so they waste the money on renting office space or paying their own living expenses while they work on the project, and they run out of money before they can get anything finished or printed. There's no money left for them to give back.

Saelorn said:

No. Most of the ones that fail are due to poor budgeting, so they waste the money on renting office space or paying their own living expenses while they work on the project, and they run out of money before they can get anything finished or printed. There's no money left for them to give back.

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For that reason, I think it's a good idea for first-time Kickstarters to do the work "on spec" when they can. In other words, and as an example, creators do all the writing and most of the editing for a module first. They also produce the maps, at least the mock ups for a cartographer if not the final maps. And they talk to some artists about cover and interior art, perhaps even pay for the art in advance so the potential backers can see the aesthetic of the work. Then creators do the Kickstart to recoup the art budget, to see if there's enough interest to fund extras, and, whenever applicable, to determine the quantity of a print run.

Another Gen X'er here. Chip Readers don't bug me. They were already common in Asia, where I spent much of my early adult years. But I much prefer paying by phone (NFC chips + fingerprint reader).

As for the topic at hand, I LOVE Kickstarter and Patreon, but you have to understand what you are getting yourself into. The most important thing to understand about Kickstarter is that it is not a pre-order. It is an investment. You invest your money and take on some risk in exchange for (1) getting a product that may otherwise never have been made, (2) generally at a discount from the eventual retail price, and (3) often with some backer-only extras. But there is risk, it is possible that the project will fail. You could just lose your money and get nothing for it.

There are lots of articles that give guidelines on how to use Kickstarter and avoid getting burned. Probably the most common is to back "proven" companies and individuals. I find that attitude unfortunate. Part of the appeal of Kickstarter is that we can all be "angel investors" making micro investments to allow creators to release products that otherwise might not have a chance of being made. That might be because they are "not good enough" but in some cases it is because they are "too good" (too expensive to be made through traditional channels), or the potential customer base is too niche. Kickstarter allows the long tail of various interests to be served.

I categorize my Kickstarter investments into two rough groups:

(1) Safe. These are the Kickstarter projects from creators with proven track records: e.g., Kobold Press, Reaper Miniatures, Fat Dragon Games, Zombie Orpheus Entertainment. I love the work that they've done in the past, and the project they are pitching looks great, so I want to help make sure they make it and I can get a better deal as a KS backer than buying it retail later. I'm willing to spend more money on these projects.

(2) Risky. These are cool projects by "unproven" creators. I expect that they will suffer from delays and will be rather rocky and unprofessionally run. I accept that I may lose my money. I generally do not spend a lot of money on these and take the mindset that it is a donation to give someone a shot at fulfilling a dream. Hopefully I will get to enjoy a cool project from it.

I've had the best luck with gaming aids, printed material, movies, and educational science kits. I've had very mixed luck with software. I will not back video games at all any more, but I am currently backing two different TTRPG mapping applications, one from a proven developer (Inkwell Ideas) and the other from someone I'd never heard of, but liked the concept (an isometric dungeon creation tool).

While there is not much protection (even if there is fraud, it is hardly worth your time to go after them), paying with a good credit card can help. There was one software game I backed that was a mess. But it was one guy, so whatever. What bothered me is that he delivered license keys but not all backers got them and he was completely not responsive to all attempts to communicate with him. I kept records of all my communications, had screenshots, and a timeline and was able to reverse the charge. Do not bother addressing this with Kickstarter itself. Their terms are pretty clear. Buyer beware.

Patreon is a lot safer. You set an amount to support per deliverable or per term. If you pay per deliverable, you can set a cap. It is easy to administer and cancel. Patreon is a great way to "subscribe" to content from creators you trust.

One example is Jared Blando, a professional cartographer. I know his maps are going to be professional and that he knows how to deliver. I am very happy supporting someone like that to build up my collection of digital battlemaps.

EnWorld's En5ider is another great example. I've been very pleased with the quality. Now and then there may be an article I don't have much use for, but the ratio of wheat to chaff is far better than a traditional gaming magazine, for example.

I also support Printable Heros, the creator is a relative unknown as far as I know, but his work is great.

DM Scotty is someone I feel I should throw a few bucks to every month even though most of his content is free on YouTube. I want to make sure he keeps creating content and Patreon is an easy, no-risk way to support him.


So I don't get the dismissive attitudes many have towards Kickstarter and Patreon, they have done so much to improve my TTRPG and Board Game hobby.

Subscription Boxes, on the other hand, are not my thing. None that I've looked at were at all appealing to me.

I'll rattle my old man can on your front porch too if ya don't mind. What bothers me is that Kickstarter is a great idea for small startups, new and interesting projects by new and interesting creators and for that, I really don't mind. What bothers me is big (in the context of the gaming industry) companies, Successful companies (once again, in context) and profitable companies (still in context) using it for screwball projects that are obviously going to cost way too much money for poor results. Like the Pathfinder video game. Seriously? Pathfinder is, at least IMO, the TTRPG equivalent of a AAA video game. It's put out by a well-known studio with a strong financial support and a wide player appeal. But the Pathfinder video game is a reeking pile of garbage that IMO, does a disservice to the brand, but because some players were willing to throw literally millions of dollars at it, Paizo is making it.

Kickstarters have done worse, they've bread Kickstarter's poor, stupid little brother: Gofundme. Where people literally beg for money. "Gold beggars" have transcended MMOs and become a real-life drain on the internet.