D&D 5E 5e Hardcore: Monster Manual

What is so long, the OP? If so, I guess I felt it was necessary to explain the purpose of this thread the best that I could. I actually plan to add more info at some time!

I understood that a bit late. The OP is ok. But the way you're going is well... it is going to require a lot, and I mean a real whole lot of very very long work...


Well maybe this thread isn't for you. This is really for groups where the standard monsters are decidedly not OK. There are several on these forums to whom this applies.

Every bit of good stuff is for me. Who am I to reject what you are doing? I may use it, or not. But it is a work in progress. So far, I do like what you did with the monsters. Continue. Do not think that I will reject everything with a wave of my hand. I will take time to read and to think over what you're doing and maybe even comment.


Those are all good suggestions - thank you! However, I am looking to adjust more than just the big bads, so I would apply these concepts more generally.

That is what I am seeing. Again, a normal Marilith could be with a stronger sister? This could be a way to enhance normal monsters too. But not all of them. Yet, I'll wait to see where all this will be going.



Nice additions, I have already posted an Epic Update of the Lich, but I will get to an AD&D revision so this is very helpful. I will probably add more HP and lessen the AC has it is usually more fun to hit than miss ;)

Thank you again. I can assure you that my group still hate that lich...
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Quickleaf

Legend
[MENTION=83242]dave2008[/MENTION] Wow, very ambitious project! Good luck :)

I'm curious if you could spell out your maths for the new table you created? How are you arriving at the Elite/Paragon/Mythic hit point and damage values? Is it based on playtesting or feel? And is there an equation and how did you reach that equation?
 

dave2008

Legend
[MENTION=83242]dave2008[/MENTION] Wow, very ambitious project! Good luck :)

Thanks! Zardnaar has already sent me approx. 30 monsters that I hope to get posted next week. So hopefully I will get some help to make this something worthwhile.

I'm curious if you could spell out your maths for the new table you created? How are you arriving at the Elite/Paragon/Mythic hit point and damage values? Is it based on playtesting or feel? And is there an equation and how did you reach that equation?

I do plan on providing more information at some point, just really busy at work at the moment. It started with 4e elite (2x) and solo designs (4x), but I felt 5e could use a smaller bump (based on actual play and comments on various threads here at EnWorld). Thus these elites are 1.5x the HP and DPR threshold of typical monsters. So elite = 1.5x standard HP and DPR, paragon = 2x, and mythic = 4x. However, from my experience with the balor, goristro and marilith elite seems sufficient to me at this time.
 

werecorpse

Adventurer
Great stuff - looking forward to some lower CR monsters.

I have considered just having a list of abilities, like your unstoppable, to be able to template on to a base creature
 

Is Unstopable cumulative, i.e. if the Balor gets hit with multiple such effects, does it lose just the next bonus action, or one bonus action for each effect?

Also, did you change the CR table so it only includes Elites? I was going to ask how you derived XP for mythics (it wasn't 4x standard)?
 

CapnZapp

Legend
If you want to start rewriting monsters it is a lot of work. Use more monsters at higher levels or add races to NPC's.
"More monsters" is one option. But it shouldn't be the only option. It definitely does not excuse the lack of stronger, more sophisticated monsters that can stand on their own.

Adding classes to monsters is even more work than just improving the monsters, so I don't agree that is a solution.



Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app
 


CapnZapp

Legend
PM me I have a personal 5E MM with custom monsters and variants. Mostly lower CR but there are a few at CR5-6. Its got 33 monsters/NPCs in it up to CR 13.
Unfortunately it is precisely around this point (CR 13) the deficiencies of the MM gets painfully acute.

By this I simply mean to say that saying it's a five minute job to tweak a low level creature isn't really helpful...

Thanks though for your examples.



Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app
 

CapnZapp

Legend
I'm not sure what the point would be. An 'advanced' DM should be able to just whip up or adjust on the fly monsters sufficiently challenging to any level of player optimization. Exhaustive PC-like design options just, IMHO, add a lot of unnecessary steps to that process.
Nobody wants or needs "Exhaustive PC-like design"

You are severely underestimating the effort needed to "whip up or adjust on the fly monsters sufficiently challenging", especially in bulk.

One such creature, yes, maybe.

A whole string of them, and almost every play session? Not a chance.

The relief and fun factor in actually being able to turn to your Monster Manual and trust that its monsters can be used as-is is a huge factor.

Nobody is asking for perfection. But the baseline given for double digit CR monsters in the existing MM is clearly not up to snuff. It is simply not close enough to being good enough.

This is why threads like this exist.



Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Let me generally state my posts defend the idea of daves thread more than his actual execution.

His thread on epic threats change too much for my liking, increasing the difficulty more than what I would have done.

My ideal Monster Manual would slap 20% to 50% more hp on critters, and give them two or three fundamental get out of Dodge abilities.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app
 

Remove ads

Top