dave2008
Legend
Interesting, we don't typically role play to that level of depth. That being said, in any campaign I've run all characters would understand the dangers of dragon fire.
D&D 5E 5e Hardcore: Monster Manual
Interesting, we don't typically role play to that level of depth. That being said, in any campaign I've run all characters would understand the dangers of dragon fire.
FormerlyHemlock
Hero
But do they intuitively understand the relative magnitudes of wyrming vs. adult vs. ancient red dragon breath the way a dragon would? Is it a meaningful frame of reference?
Quickleaf
Legend
[MENTION=83242]dave2008[/MENTION] A few points on the "Sack" ability:
1. It's actually not imposing the blinded condition, it's just preventing you from seeing outside of the sack. For example, if a creature has the natural ability to glow or is wielding a magic item emitting dim light or has any of the umpteen-million ways PCs can generate light, then they could see inside the sack. This could be relevant if there's another creature or object in the sack you want to interact with (e.g. reading a scroll, finding a potion).
2. Slashing or piercing weapons should be listed as being able to free one from the sack. Since daggers (a piercing weapon) are sort of a movie trope for doing such things. And it makes sense logically - cloth tears pretty easily once there's a hole in it.
3. How many creatures can be "sacked" at one time? My hunch is one (or possibly one Medium or two Small)? Worth mentioning.
.....
As an observation – and take this with a grain of salt as you and I may have different directions when it comes to our goals in redesigning monsters – I am skeptical of the mechanistic differentiation of monsters that 4e encouraged. A lot of times I found it divorced from any meaningful narrative. IMHO the #1 thing I want monster stats to do is make the players take notice "Yeah! cool! *wince* that ogre, man, remember the time we fought that ogre? And it did that totally ogrish thing? I didn't expect that!"
For example, the Ogre Savage has an attack that knocks prone or pushes. Totally with you. That's a very ogre thing to do. But a "Smash" that does more damage, can be used approximately 1/encounter, stuns and knocks prone? That's a bit unusual because it implies (a) what the big dumb brute was doing before was not 'Smashing', and (b) it's utilizing the stunned condition in a way that the Monster Manual doesn't so much.
Similarly, the Ogre Skirmisher having the ability to throw a javelin then rush in and pulverize someone with his club makes sense. It ensures that those stone- or bone-tipped javelins will see play, and those help reinforce that these are creatures with lower-tech "savage" weapons. But adding the ability to charge? That's an ability we see on quadrupeds like the Centaur and other horned/tusked creatures like Unicorns, Minotaurs, Boars, etc. So...even if in the narrative this ogre supposed to be lumbering on all fours like an ape, well, apes don't get charge. So maybe it's wearing a spiked helmet or is a horned ogre? In that case, I'd suggest renaming it to Horned Ogre (or Horned Ogre Skirmisher if you will), which allows a DM to understand the monster - and be able to convey that meaningfully in the narrative to his/her players - in blink of an eye.
Personally, I found your Ogre Warhulk to be the clearest to convey narratively. It's an especially big armored ogre with a massive pike that it wields wildly like a shish-kebob. More or less. However, in directly converting from 4e you've also picked up some of the bad elements of that system's treatment of monsters – namely that they're principally combat entities. What does an Ogre Warhulk do outside of combat? For example, looking at the Ogre Collector, you can easily imagine one of those guys carrying back a peasant or a few pigs in his sack for dinner for the missus/mister and quarrelsome children. So if I were reinterpreting the Ogre Warhulk, I'd look back to the lore of AD&D where ogres were described as "often found serving as mercenaries in the ranks of orc tribes, evil clerics, or gnolls" & the Stonecrown Ogres of Birthright, who organized into mercenary companies and used arbalests to hurl rocks. My design move would be to bill the Ogre Warhulk as an Ogre Mercenary or Mercenary Captain, and maybe give it powers that make it a siege-breaker (e.g. max damage to objects), to command other ogres, etc.
They're subtle changes, but I think they go a long way to establishing that these are not just generic big, dumb brutes. The same could be said of trolls or ettins or hill giants. The key is figuring out what kind of big, dumb brutes they are, and clearly communicating that to DMs so they're empowered to express that narratively to their players.
1. It's actually not imposing the blinded condition, it's just preventing you from seeing outside of the sack. For example, if a creature has the natural ability to glow or is wielding a magic item emitting dim light or has any of the umpteen-million ways PCs can generate light, then they could see inside the sack. This could be relevant if there's another creature or object in the sack you want to interact with (e.g. reading a scroll, finding a potion).
2. Slashing or piercing weapons should be listed as being able to free one from the sack. Since daggers (a piercing weapon) are sort of a movie trope for doing such things. And it makes sense logically - cloth tears pretty easily once there's a hole in it.
3. How many creatures can be "sacked" at one time? My hunch is one (or possibly one Medium or two Small)? Worth mentioning.
.....
As an observation – and take this with a grain of salt as you and I may have different directions when it comes to our goals in redesigning monsters – I am skeptical of the mechanistic differentiation of monsters that 4e encouraged. A lot of times I found it divorced from any meaningful narrative. IMHO the #1 thing I want monster stats to do is make the players take notice "Yeah! cool! *wince* that ogre, man, remember the time we fought that ogre? And it did that totally ogrish thing? I didn't expect that!"
For example, the Ogre Savage has an attack that knocks prone or pushes. Totally with you. That's a very ogre thing to do. But a "Smash" that does more damage, can be used approximately 1/encounter, stuns and knocks prone? That's a bit unusual because it implies (a) what the big dumb brute was doing before was not 'Smashing', and (b) it's utilizing the stunned condition in a way that the Monster Manual doesn't so much.
Similarly, the Ogre Skirmisher having the ability to throw a javelin then rush in and pulverize someone with his club makes sense. It ensures that those stone- or bone-tipped javelins will see play, and those help reinforce that these are creatures with lower-tech "savage" weapons. But adding the ability to charge? That's an ability we see on quadrupeds like the Centaur and other horned/tusked creatures like Unicorns, Minotaurs, Boars, etc. So...even if in the narrative this ogre supposed to be lumbering on all fours like an ape, well, apes don't get charge. So maybe it's wearing a spiked helmet or is a horned ogre? In that case, I'd suggest renaming it to Horned Ogre (or Horned Ogre Skirmisher if you will), which allows a DM to understand the monster - and be able to convey that meaningfully in the narrative to his/her players - in blink of an eye.
Personally, I found your Ogre Warhulk to be the clearest to convey narratively. It's an especially big armored ogre with a massive pike that it wields wildly like a shish-kebob. More or less. However, in directly converting from 4e you've also picked up some of the bad elements of that system's treatment of monsters – namely that they're principally combat entities. What does an Ogre Warhulk do outside of combat? For example, looking at the Ogre Collector, you can easily imagine one of those guys carrying back a peasant or a few pigs in his sack for dinner for the missus/mister and quarrelsome children. So if I were reinterpreting the Ogre Warhulk, I'd look back to the lore of AD&D where ogres were described as "often found serving as mercenaries in the ranks of orc tribes, evil clerics, or gnolls" & the Stonecrown Ogres of Birthright, who organized into mercenary companies and used arbalests to hurl rocks. My design move would be to bill the Ogre Warhulk as an Ogre Mercenary or Mercenary Captain, and maybe give it powers that make it a siege-breaker (e.g. max damage to objects), to command other ogres, etc.
They're subtle changes, but I think they go a long way to establishing that these are not just generic big, dumb brutes. The same could be said of trolls or ettins or hill giants. The key is figuring out what kind of big, dumb brutes they are, and clearly communicating that to DMs so they're empowered to express that narratively to their players.
dave2008
Legend
Check your MM manual again it is 2d8. I didn't change anything. I took it directly from the book.
I'm away from book, so I believe you. Can you confirm if this is an oversight in the MM or if my memory of the Greatclub is wrong?
If this is the case, I guess Greatclubs in the PHB deal 1d8 damage, and not 1d10 like I thought for some reason. Is that right?
My apologies either way!
dave2008
Legend
I just don' think most people look at that way. It is simply: dragon fire is the hottest and the bigger the dragon, the hotter the fire. To be clear, that doesn't mean they are correct. The people in my campaign worlds would generally believe dragon fire is the hottest (legends and such), but they have no practical knowledge to verify this information and no desire to get it either! I don't think most people need to think on it more than that to know they want to avoid it. Heck, I generally want to avoid direct contact with any fire!
However, to be honest it just isn't a concern for the way we play. We don't worry about how all the characters interact with the game mechanics in the fiction of the world. That is why it is fascinating to me to hear how you approach it.
dave2008
Legend
I just checked the SRD and it says 1d8 for the greatclub, but I don't have the PHB with me.
No worries!
FormerlyHemlock
Hero
SRD Greatclubs are in fact 1d8 per http://5esrd.com/equipment/weapons/, which is weird--I also thought they were 1d10.
Quickleaf
Legend
In MM ogres deal 2d8 with greatclub.
In PHB a greatclub deals 1d8.
However ogres are large, so an extra damage die, according to DMG. Hence 2d8.
Double down on your gingko bilboa
FormerlyHemlock
Hero
Double down on your gingko bilboa
^^^^
"Gingko biloba".
This post contains an intentional mitsake to guard against Muphry's Law.
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