Contemplative too powerful?

Kershek · Feb 26, 2002

What do people here think of the prestige class Contemplative from Defenders of the Faith? Is it something you would allow in your game? Are there any aspects of it that seems too powerful?

Malin Genie · Feb 26, 2002

It seems reasonable to me. You lose comabt effectiveness, hit points, good Fort saves and turning ability, in return for a couple of prestige domains and some minor abilities (like immunity to disease.)

shilsen · Feb 26, 2002

Well-balanced

I haven't played one or had one run in a game I was DM-ing, but it doesn't seem to be an overpowered class. A cleric taking it gives up a good deal. The contemplative has slower BAB progression, poorer saves, no advancement in undead turning, lower hp, etc. Sure, the prestige domains and the divine wholeness/soul/body abilities are nice, but it's nowhere close to gamebreaking. The PrC might actually be a leg up for a wizard, but I'd personally require very strong roleplaying reasons before giving a wizard access to it. Also remember that this is a PrC that isn't available before 11th lvl (you need to be 10th to meet the requirements), so it is understandable if it were more powerful than many other PrCs out there, but I don't think it is.

hong · Feb 26, 2002

The only really nifty specials that the contemplative gets are slippery mind, spell resistance and poison immunity. Being immune to aging effects is minor when there's almost nothing out there that magically ages you anyway; while being immune to diseases is almost irrelevant IME.

The prestige domains are powerful, but the contemplative doesn't get any extra spell slots with which to cast them. Basically they extend the character's spellcasting power, but that's balanced by their reduced hp and BAB, so they become more like a cleric/wizard hybrid.

Malin Genie · Feb 26, 2002

Re: Well-balanced

shilsen said:
The PrC might actually be a leg up for a wizard, but I'd personally require very strong roleplaying reasons before giving a wizard access to it.

Actually, unlike say the Divine Oracle, Contemplative only advances divine spellcasting ability, so it isn't a 'cheap' option for wizards....

Jens · Feb 26, 2002

The spell levels only give divine (or cleric even) caster levels, not very interesting to a sorcerer or wizard, who would otherwise find the class very interesting.

Gaiden · Feb 26, 2002

IMHO, a munchkin would almost never choose a contemplative, and most certainly would not choose to continue advancing contemplative. The only good thing about the class is the access to any domain granted by your faith - a.k.a. you might actually now be able to access that hard to get celerity domain. (btw - celerity is most certainly not overpowered because a contemplative is the only PrC that can get it - except for maybe some FR PrC, but everyone knows how broken FR things are to begin with). I don't have the books with me but I think a contemplative gets access to its first bonus domain at first level. So a munchkin can simply take one level in it forsaking all benefits just for the domain - which may actually be worth it.

It certainly is not overpowered however.

Victim · Feb 26, 2002

There aer no prestige domains for FR, so non of the prestige classes grant them. One does grant an extra domain, but you could make the distinction between that and a prestige domain.