D&D 5E How to balance combat when 2 characters are average and one is extremely overpowered?

jodyjohnson · Feb 11, 2017

One of the things I appreciate about 5e is that the numbers fall within a certain range based on level so it is pretty easy to spot when someone is calculating something wrong.
Normally point-buy characters start with a +4 to +5 to hit (Archery style allows +7) . At 6th normally the range has increased by 2-3 (ABI, magic item, proficiency increase) so +10 is a typical bonus for Archery and +8 for others.

Of course rolled stats could add +2 over point buy short-term.

SwiftRoofusUnderbunk · Feb 11, 2017

I wasn't accusing him of cheating (if you were referring to me) I am simply a new DM who didn't know all the rules and couldn't figure out why his rogue was so much stronger than my other players. Mostly all the issues I had with his character were resolved using the guidance of the previous commenters and explanations of the rules. I don't blame him and I'll have him fix it next session before we start. I appreciate all of the advice.

mach1.9pants · Feb 11, 2017

The bits he's nerfed himself:
Saves: Dex should be 8, Int 5
Skills: deception 6, insight 4, investigation 5, perception 4, stealth and sleight 8

Assuming he rolled 11, 18, 14,14,13,16 stats are ok

Bits he's buffed:
He has two feats, crossbow expert and light armor exhort, should only have one
Assuming he's wearing studded leather his ac should be 17
+1 crossbow should be +9 to hit, +6 to damage

Note to hide behind his bigger allies and get sneak attack, if he is not already hidden, takes an action (can be bonus action) so after he had attacked once, he is not hidden so the next round he must hide again, using bonus action, to gain sneak attack. Also you can only attack with a crossbow as a bonus action if it is already loaded "When you use the Attack action and attack with a one-handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a loaded hand crossbow you are holding."

Yunru · Feb 11, 2017

Sqn Cdr Flashheart said:
The bits he's nerfed himself:
Saves: Dex should be 8, Int 5
Skills: deception 6, insight 4, investigation 5, perception 4, stealth and sleight 8

Assuming he rolled 11, 18, 14,14,13,16 stats are ok

Bits he's buffed:
He has two feats, crossbow expert and light armor exhort, should only have one
Assuming he's wearing studded leather his ac should be 17
+1 crossbow should be +9 to hit, +6 to damage

Note to hide behind his bigger allies and get sneak attack, if he is not already hidden, takes an action (can be bonus action) so after he had attacked once, he is not hidden so the next round he must hide again, using bonus action, to gain sneak attack.

Given his earlier statement, I'd assume he's using the fact you can Sneak Attack a foe if an ally is adjacent, to apply sneak attack when an ally is adjacent, just throwing it out there.

ProphetSword · Feb 11, 2017

Sqn Cdr Flashheart said:
Note to hide behind his bigger allies and get sneak attack, if he is not already hidden, takes an action (can be bonus action) so after he had attacked once, he is not hidden so the next round he must hide again, using bonus action, to gain sneak attack.

I am also going to point out that while being hidden grants advantage to the attack, and advantage will grant the condition for sneak attack, so does having an ally within five feet of your target. If the allies he is standing behind are in melee with his target, he can still gain sneak attack without bothering to hide (the hiding will simply grant him advantage on the attack roll).

Just clarifying, since the DM is new.

EDIT:
Yunru beat me to the punch.

mach1.9pants · Feb 11, 2017

Thanks guys, good clarification. " if he stands behind allies" was making me think of hiding

FormerlyHemlock · Feb 11, 2017

I haven't seen anyone mention this (maybe I overlooked someone) but I wanted to call it out explicitly:

Crossbow Expert consumes your bonus action. Cunning Action also consumes your bonus action. You only have one bonus action per turn, so he cannot make two attacks with Crossbow Expert and also use Cunning Action in any way, shape, or form. You have to choose between them.

The choice of term "bonus action" is one of the most misleading things in 5E. It makes people think it's free, because who ever would think that you can only receive one bonus? But in 5E, that's the way it works. Bonus actions are not free, and you can only take one per round (on your turn).

Yunru · Feb 11, 2017

Hemlock said:
I haven't seen anyone mention this (maybe I overlooked someone) but I wanted to call it out explicitly:

Crossbow Expert consumes your bonus action. Cunning Action also consumes your bonus action. You only have one bonus action per turn, so he cannot make two attacks with Crossbow Expert and also use Cunning Action in any way, shape, or form. You have to choose between them.

The choice of term "bonus action" is one of the most misleading things in 5E. It makes people think it's free, because who ever would think that you can only receive one bonus? But in 5E, that's the way it works. Bonus actions are not free, and you can only take one per round (on your turn).

Yeah, "Bonus action" is just stupid wording to try and avoid drawing attention to anything 4e. Really it's just a minor action.

ProphetSword · Feb 11, 2017

In addition, the OP said something about the character getting three attacks at one point because the player was using the Rogue's Cunning Action to get the third attack. He said he came to realize that the character couldn't use Cunning Action to attack (by the rules it only grants the Hide, Disengage and Dash actions).

However, I think what might have been missed is that the OP might not realize that the Cunning Action uses the character's bonus action for that turn and so does an off-hand attack. Characters only get one bonus action a turn (and only if they are doing something that grants it, so there's no guarantee on them having one). If a rogue attacks with an off-hand weapon, they can't use their Cunning Action or vice versa.

The only way I can see how the character was getting three attacks was because they were using their bonus action and the Cunning Action granted by the Rogue class. He cannot do that.

Again, just trying to help a new DM out. Apologies if someone already pointed this out.

EDIT:
*sigh* Beaten again...this time by Hemlock. We all really need to coordinate better, guys.

Vulf · Feb 11, 2017

Once a halfling attacks from behind an ally in a battle, I find it odd that the DM would allow him to hide behind the same ally again and again.

If anything the shadow would give him away. The GM is the ultimate arbiter on whether a player is hidden or not.