Future of the current Adventure League

monkeydave said:

So adventure's spirit, not the spirit of the rules, but the adventure.

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A good observation, since it is correct by the letter of what was written, but not by the spirit of it.

I mean, not really. The FAQ is very clear about which variant rules are allowed. Any thing beyond rules as written is a houserule,

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Let's not get into this discussion again -- there are many things the rules don't cover:

- How much falling damage do you take when falling into water?
- What's the minimum hit point maximum a character can possess?
- How many pages does a spell take up in a spellbook?
- Can a Circle of the Moon druid still use Wild Shape as an action, or can he only use it as a bonus action?

The game quickly becomes unplayable if you claim that any ruling not listed in a rule source is a 'house-rule'. What the AL admins are saying when they ask DMs not to 'house-rule' is not to make up rules that contradict the rules in the PH or the various AL governing documents. And, as rooneg notes, there's a fair amount that you seem to think is ironclad spelled out in AL documents that actually is cobbled together over a fair amount of conjecture and implication. For example (if I may skip a bit), this:

If you aren't interested in the portability that makes AL what it is, then you can play the hardcover as a non-AL easily enough.

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Literally the only thing that the current (6.0) ALPG says about portability is "You can create a character and bring that character to any D&D Adventurers League game." It does not say that the DM is required to accept all aspects of your character as gospel, that you have the ability to dictate play style to an existing table, or any one of a number of other things you presume to be 'true' about AL because they are the way you play AL.

Who said that's what is going on? Wanting to have a min-maxed character has nothing to do with wanting the game to be about me.

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And here we go. I'm very much on record as stating that optimization is a flawed playstyle that I don't support at my table, so rather than hash out that argument all over again, I'll just point out that your idea of what the game should be ("where everyone is as strong as they can be within the rules and uses good strategy and teamwork when taking down challenging encounters") is not the single 'right answer' of what a game is supposed to be. This is particularly true in Season 4, among folk who are Ravenloft vets and have fond memories of that setting in earlier D&D editions. So sitting down at a Curse of Strahd table with a character who keeps coming in more powerful and with more magic items than the last session is almost exactly going against the social contract of what I'd consider a Ravenloft game to be about, even if it is technically legal.

If having a min-maxed character is being a dick, then so be it.

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Your statement, not mine, though I do agree.

If you want to play an optimized character, then don't play at my table. Simple as that.

--
Pauper

I run and play a lot of AL. I'm in a Wednesday FLGS group that has a small amount of player variability and monthly weekend events and seasonal cons that have constant variability. I've turned away players that couldn't produce logs showing xp and magic item acquisition or were playing out-of-bounds PCs (rolled stats, etc). The first step is to review and see if their character is out of spec in a way that would make them easy to fix ("Okay, you can't keep these stats but because it's Tier I you can rebuild using the Standard Array or point buy...") or not ("I'm sorry, you have no logged sessions indicating your PC has completed SKT and has a Staff of Power at 4th level..."). In general if the issue is easy to resolve and the player seems legit then we make the changes and they're in the game. If not then the player needs to produce a legal PC or join a Tier I table with a pregen or something.

I have no problem with playing characters in other modules outside of a HC adventure they may be involved with. One of the core principles of AL is character portability. I do it frequently because I want to play mods as well as HCs with my favorite PCs. Sometimes I'll hold my PC out in the next HC session or more and play another character for fun. I just tell the DM what's up and we improvise a story reason for the swap. During the course of a season we might have a 4-5 level difference between one player's main HC PC (who plays a lot externally) and another's (who only plays HC). We deal with it with good encounter adjustment and party teamwork.

Online play has caused one or two issues. It seems a lot faster and looser than in-person AL games. One of our HC players showed up with a Wand of Lightning he was awarded by an online DM for playing Dark Pyramid of Sorcerer's Isle that the DM gave out because he had the cert (from Eye of the Tempest) and thought the Horn of Blasting from Dark Pyramid was lame. We told the player that wasn't a legal substitution. Also people who play sections of HCs to obtain a given item isn't unheard of. But in those cases at least the players I've seen are playing the game to get the reward and not just jotting it down on their sheet.

All and all I'd say AL is still working just fine if the goal is to have a group of people sit down, play D&D and have a good time.

Warmaster Horus said:

I run and play a lot of AL. I'm in a Wednesday FLGS group that has a small amount of player variability and monthly weekend events and seasonal cons that have constant variability. I've turned away players that couldn't produce logs showing xp and magic item acquisition or were playing out-of-bounds PCs (rolled stats, etc). The first step is to review and see if their character is out of spec in a way that would make them easy to fix ("Okay, you can't keep these stats but because it's Tier I you can rebuild using the Standard Array or point buy...") or not ("I'm sorry, you have no logged sessions indicating your PC has completed SKT and has a Staff of Power at 4th level..."). In general if the issue is easy to resolve and the player seems legit then we make the changes and they're in the game. If not then the player needs to produce a legal PC or join a Tier I table with a pregen or something.

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My experience is largely the same, for what it's worth.

Warmaster Horus said:

I have no problem with playing characters in other modules outside of a HC adventure they may be involved with. One of the core principles of AL is character portability. I do it frequently because I want to play mods as well as HCs with my favorite PCs. Sometimes I'll hold my PC out in the next HC session or more and play another character for fun. I just tell the DM what's up and we improvise a story reason for the swap. During the course of a season we might have a 4-5 level difference between one player's main HC PC (who plays a lot externally) and another's (who only plays HC). We deal with it with good encounter adjustment and party teamwork.

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This is a perfectly legitimate way to run HC campaigns, but so is "please don't play your PC outside this campaign". I know local games that fit both molds. It's really up to the players and DMs in question which they prefer.

Warmaster Horus said:

Online play has caused one or two issues. It seems a lot faster and looser than in-person AL games. One of our HC players showed up with a Wand of Lightning he was awarded by an online DM for playing Dark Pyramid of Sorcerer's Isle that the DM gave out because he had the cert (from Eye of the Tempest) and thought the Horn of Blasting from Dark Pyramid was lame. We told the player that wasn't a legal substitution. Also people who play sections of HCs to obtain a given item isn't unheard of. But in those cases at least the players I've seen are playing the game to get the reward and not just jotting it down on their sheet.

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Interesting, I haven't seen the "fast and loose" nature of things in any of the online stuff I've encountered. I'll have to keep an eye out.

I honestly don't have a problem with people going out and playing in an online game of a particular adventure or chapter or whatever because they're looking for a known item. Heck, I ran one on Saturday night for a friend (and because I wanted the item for Dedicated DM purposes). As long as you're playing by the rules it's fine with me. If nothing else it allows more time-limited players to play at tables with the type that had a suspiciously awesome bunch of magic item table rolls in SKT.

I'm less than thrilled with the existence of SKT in the organized play program, with its super open to abuse random rolls, but it is what it is.