D&D 4E A gathering of Martial Controllers - what do you think

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Perhaps

Warlord (Hector Build)

Powers that move enemies or induce friendly fire gain bonus damage
  • Brutal Manipulator psychic damage based on cha/2 or int/2
  • Rough Manipulator physical damage based on str/2

Fearful Presence
  • martial powers having the key word fear have saving throws at -2
  • powers that move enemies increase slide/push/pull distances by 1 square

Have to make sure there are enough powers that qualify... of course
 
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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
What do we think about a rogue variant whose Sneak Attack doesn't add damage, but instead applies conditions, and has a built in minor action attack against a secondary target, who also gets Sneak Attacked?

Kludgy, perhaps, but pretty close to a knife thrower controller, if you pick the rogues most control focused powers.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
What do we think about a rogue variant whose Sneak Attack doesn't add damage, but instead applies conditions, and has a built in minor action attack against a secondary target, who also gets Sneak Attacked?

Kludgy, perhaps, but pretty close to a knife thrower controller, if you pick the rogues most control focused powers.

There is a Ranger feat which does something like that ... by trading a die of damage

The rogue feat underhanded tactics?
 
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Tony Vargas

Legend
What do we think about a rogue variant whose Sneak Attack doesn't add damage, but instead applies conditions, and has a built in minor action attack against a secondary target, who also gets Sneak Attacked?


Rogue (Swashbuckler)

CLASS TRAITS

Role: Controller
Power Source: Martial
Key Abilities: DEX, CHA

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather.
Weapon Proficiencies: Dagger, hand crossbow, short sword, shortbow, shuriken, sling.
Bonus to Defense: +1 REF, +1 WILL

Hit points @ 1st level: 12 + CON score
Hit points per level: 5
Healing surges/day: 7 + CON mod

Trained Skills: Stealth, Insight. From the class skills list below, choose 4 more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dex), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dex).

Class features: Rogue Exploits, Weapon Finesse, Rogue's Tricks, Surprise Attack, Secret Thrust

Rogue Exploits: Gain Encounter and Daily Exploits as a Rogue (Scoundrel) of your level.

Weapon Finesse Rogue Feature
When you use a ranged weapon, light blade or off-hand weapon, to make a basic attack or a martial power that normally uses STR for attack and damage, you can substitute DEX, instead. .

Rogue's Tricks: Choose two of the following at-will Tricks (or choose from the Thief's list)

Flourish Trick Rogue Utility
At-Will Martial
Move Action Personal
Effect: Move up to your speed. Make a Bluff check against the passive insight of one creature you provoke an OA from in the course of this movement. If the check succeeds, the OA automatically misses, and you have combat advantage against that creature until the end of your turn.

Sidestep Trick Rogue Utility
At-Will Martial
Move Action Personal
Effect: Shift 1 square on your turn. If an enemy moves adjacent to you before the start of your next turn, shift 1 and slide the enemy into the square you vacate, then take an OA against that enemy.

Balance Trick Rogue Utility
At-Will Martial
Move Action Personal
Effect: You gain a climb speed equal to your speed-2 until the end of your turn and move up half your speed. If you are on a surface above an enemy at the end of this movement, you gain Combat Advantage against that enemy. At the end of your turn, you can again move up to half your speed, and must end it in a square that does not require a climb speed to remain in, or you will fall.

Wild Swing Trick Rogue Utility
At-Will Martial
Move Action Personal
Effect: You can shift 1 square. Any close martial power that you use before the start of your next turn that normally targets enemies instead targets all creatures in the area, and after the attack is resolved, you can shift into one of the squares in it's area.

Hornet's Nest Trick Rogue Utility
At-Will Martial
Move Action Personal
Effect: Until the end of your turn, if you make a ranged basic attack or a martial attack using a ranged weapon, you can choose to make the attack a burst 1 within the weapon's short range, instead. If the attack power you are using is already a close or area attack, it's area is increased by 1 instead of become a burst 1. You must expend at least one piece of ammunition per square of the burst (9 for a burst 1) or per creature targeted by the attack, whichever is greater.


Surprise Attack Rogue Feature
When you hit an enemy that you have Combat Advantage against with a basic attack or power with the martial keyword, you can apply one of the following in addition to other effects:
* You slide the target up to 2 squares.
* The target falls prone.
* The target is slowed (save ends).
* Make a basic attack as a minor action against one other enemy whom you have not hit on the same turn. If you hit, you inflict only DEX mod damage, but, if you have combat advantage, may apply a Surprise Attack effect.

Secret Thrust Rogue Feature
When you use a daily or encounter attack power with the martial keyword, you can apply one of the following extra benefits to conditions imposed on enemy(ies) targeted by the attack against whom you had combat advantage when you resolved the attack:
* If the attack imposes a condition until the end of your next turn, it gains an after-effect: the same condition (save ends)
* If the attack imposes (or the target is already under) one of the following conditions, you can impose the next condition in the list, instead: slowed -> immobilized -> restrained
* If the attack imposes (or the target is already under) one of the following conditions, you can impose the next condition in the list, instead: unable to take OA -> dazed -> stunned
Special: You cannot gain the same extra benefit from using a Secret Thrust again until after the current encounter ends.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Surprise Attack Rogue Feature
When you hit an enemy that you have Combat Advantage against with a basic attack or power with the martial keyword, you can apply one of the following in addition to other effects:
* You slide the target up to 2 squares.
* The target falls prone.
* The target is slowed (save ends).
* If the attack is an encounter power that imposes a condition until the end of your next turn, it gains an after-effect: the same condition (save ends)
* If the attack imposes (or the target is already under) one of the following conditions, you can impose the next condition in the list, instead: slowed -> immobilized -> restrained
* If the attack imposes (or the target is already under) one of the following conditions, you can impose the next condition in the list, instead: unable to take OA -> dazed -> stunned
* Make a basic attack as a minor action against one other enemy whom you have not hit on the same turn. If you hit, you inflict only DEX mod damage, but, if you have combat advantage, may apply a Surprise Attack effect.

Pardon my french but.... that is F'ing versatile.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Rogue (Swashbuckler)

CLASS TRAITS

Role: Controller
Power Source: Martial
Key Abilities: DEX, CHA

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather.
Weapon Proficiencies: Dagger, hand crossbow, short sword, shortbow, shuriken, sling.
Bonus to Defense: +1 REF, +1 WILL

Hit points @ 1st level: 12 + CON score
Hit points per level: 5
Healing surges/day: 7 + CON mod

Trained Skills: Stealth, Insight. From the class skills list below, choose 4 more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dex), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dex).

Class features: Rogue Exploits, Weapon Finesse, Rogue's Tricks, Surprise Attack

Rogue Exploits: Gain Encounter and Daily Exploits as a Rogue (Scoundrel) of your level.

Weapon Finesse Rogue Feature
When you use a ranged weapon, light blade or off-hand weapon, to make a basic attack or a martial power that normally uses STR for attack and damage, you can substitute DEX, instead. .

Rogue's Tricks: Choose two of the following at-will Tricks (or choose from the Thief's list)

Flourish Trick Rogue Utility
At-Will Martial
Move Action Personal
Effect: Move up to your speed. Make a Bluff check against the passive insight of one creature you provoke an OA from in the course of this movement. If the check succeeds, the OA automatically misses, and you have combat advantage against that creature until the end of your turn.

Sidestep Trick Rogue Utility
At-Will Martial
Move Action Personal
Effect: Shift 1 square on your turn. If an enemy moves adjacent to you before the start of your next turn, shift 1 and slide the enemy into the square you vacate, then take an OA against that enemy.

Balance Trick Rogue Utility
At-Will Martial
Move Action Personal
Effect: You gain a climb speed equal to your speed-2 until the end of your turn and move up half your speed. If you are on a surface above an enemy at the end of this movement, you gain Combat Advantage against that enemy. At the end of your turn, you can again move up to half your speed, and must end it in a square that does not require a climb speed to remain in, or you will fall.

Wild Swing Trick Rogue Utility
At-Will Martial
Move Action Personal
Effect: You can shift 1 square. Any close martial power that you use before the start of your next turn that normally targets enemies instead targets all creatures in the area, and after the attack is resolved, you can shift into one of the squares in it's area.

Hornet's Nest Trick Rogue Utility
At-Will Martial
Move Action Personal
Effect: Until the end of your turn, if you make a ranged basic attack or a martial attack using a ranged weapon, you can choose to make the attack a burst 1 within the weapon's short range, instead. If the attack power you are using is already a close or area attack, it's area is increased by 1 instead of become a burst 1. You must expend at least one piece of ammunition per square of the burst (9 for a burst 1) or per creature targeted by the attack, whichever is greater.


Surprise Attack Rogue Feature
When you hit an enemy that you have Combat Advantage against with a basic attack or power with the martial keyword, you can apply one of the following in addition to other effects:
* You slide the target up to 2 squares.
* The target falls prone.
* The target is slowed (save ends).
* If the attack is an encounter power that imposes a condition until the end of your next turn, it gains an after-effect: the same condition (save ends)
* If the attack imposes (or the target is already under) one of the following conditions, you can impose the next condition in the list, instead: slowed -> immobilized -> restrained
* If the attack imposes (or the target is already under) one of the following conditions, you can impose the next condition in the list, instead: unable to take OA -> dazed -> stunned
* Make a basic attack as a minor action against one other enemy whom you have not hit on the same turn. If you hit, you inflict only DEX mod damage, but, if you have combat advantage, may apply a Surprise Attack effect.

I like it! That does exactly what I want from a rogue.

I genuinely have wanted since 2e for a rogue to be the master of dirty fighting, not just backstabbing, knife-in-the-darkery, and this does that. Excellent.


Now, if we can figure out a bombardier, we've got the little bit that 4e never got that I wanted, sorted.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Also of note: Look at the fighter. Imagine the existing 4e phb fighter, but with powers centered around control, and the ability to mark more than one enemy at a time. That is a controller.

Need more multi attack powers... like the sword burst from the Swordmage but conveniently made based on weapon reach.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
Pardon my french but.... that is F'ing versatile.
That's controllers for ya. Well, trying to squeeze the whole role support into features, anyway.

I started out with the Hunters clever shot, btw, that's the first three. Then the last one was doctorbadwolf's request. The other three are just different spins on the stuff I gave the Battlemaster, as are some of the Tricks.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
That's controllers for ya. Well, trying to squeeze the whole role support into features, anyway.

I started out with the Hunters clever shot, btw, that's the first three. Then the last one was doctorbadwolf's request. The other three are just different spins on the stuff I gave the Battlemaster, as are some of the Tricks.

Design engines out of control today LOL
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
More for Hector
AsseertionOfObeissance.pngFuriousSpinningBurst.png
 

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