Butterfly familiar?

Malin Genie · Jun 6, 2003

Have a character for whom I'm thinking of proposing a butterfly familiar (it fits the character, OK?)

Any help welcome!

Initial thoughts: Either

no bonuses to master (it can fly and it is size D from which it already gets defensive advantages.)

or +2 diplomacy

or +2 to art-based craft skills

Stats? I tried taking a Giant Bee and using the MM downsizing rules to make it size D

Result ST 1 DX 20 CN 9 IN - WS 12 CH 9
AC 21 (+2 natural +4 size +5 dex)

(Of course it gets IN and natural armour bonus for being a familiar, these are just base stats.)

Does this seem reasonable to people? Which of the 'master advantages' seem best to you guys?

cerberus2112 · Jun 6, 2003

Butterflies get squished

+2 natural armor!!!

That seems a little unlikely for something of that size. I'd eliminate the nat. armor bonus altogether, but raise its Dex to compensate. I think that its fair to say a butterfly is more dexterous than a bee, look how they flit around so. Also, be sure to give it perfect (or only slightly less than perfect) maneuverability.

Malin Genie · Jun 6, 2003

As I said, I just used the MM downsizing rules (and going from size M to size D doesn't reduce natural armour under those rules.)

Yorr suggestion seems quite reasonable though (maybe +2 Dex or a +1 dodge bonus to AC or something)?

Technik4 · Jun 6, 2003

I think it should have less hp than regular familiars or it should require the Improved Familiar feat.

Technik

wolff96 · Jun 6, 2003

Technik4 said:
I think it should have less hp than regular familiars or it should require the Improved Familiar feat.

Why?

It's lousy in combat -- good AC, but no bonuses. No special attacks, no regeneration... no incredible special abilities to the master.

All of the Improved Familiar creatures are powerhouses compared to the normal familiars -- Psuedodragons, Mephits, Imps, Quasits, etc. are actually useful in combat.

This butterfly proposed by Malin Genie is decently hard to hit. But if you think a good AC is enough compensation for a feat, I think you overestimate its value. Even with a really good AC, the wizard is still crazy if he sends his familiar into combat...

cerberus2112 · Jun 6, 2003

No Attack

Have you ever heard of a butterfly nibbling someone to death? I haven't. I'd say it has no natural attack (its mouth is probably too small to bite a person with). Furthermore, with it's 1 Str, it can't really lift anything. The uses for such a familiar would be scouting (ie. it could tell you what fragant flowers were in the area, if any) and possibly delivering a message like in LotR:FotR.

Mike Sullivan · Jun 6, 2003

Re: No Attack

cerberus2112 said:
Have you ever heard of a butterfly nibbling someone to death? I haven't. I'd say it has no natural attack (its mouth is probably too small to bite a person with).

I don't think that butterflies have mouths per se -- they've got a probiscis. I don't think that they eat solid food at all, just nectar.

Furthermore, with it's 1 Str, it can't really lift anything. The uses for such a familiar would be scouting (ie. it could tell you what fragant flowers were in the area, if any) and possibly delivering a message like in LotR:FotR.

And delivering touch spells, if you go with the stats above! It'd be quite good at that.

My own observation on butterflies is that they're far less manueverable and dextrous fliers than things like bees, or other small-winted insects (I imagine that this stems mostly from the fact that the butterfly's big wings carry too much air resistance (in proportion to the insect's mass) for it to flit about too easily).

On the plus side, the familiar could pose as a hair or clothing ornament for a female Wizard/Sorceress easily enough to pass casual scrutiny, I imagine.

I might be inclined to dramatically reduce it's dexterity, and then give the wizard some kind of minor bonus to illusion save DC's or something, more to fit thematically with the concept of pretty colors than for any hard science reason.

Malin Genie · Jun 6, 2003

What Dexterity do you think would be reasonable, Mike?

My initial post was just some starting ideas, not a proposal I'm set on or trying to defend - I'm interested in any ideas for how to balance it as a regular familiar (don't want to take the IF feat at this stage.)

I'm not keen on the 'bonus to DC' - that's a very powerful familiar ability - usually they provide skill or save bonuses. The initial idea was the relatively high AC and flight would be compensated for by no natural attacks and either no bonus or a weak bonus (compared to the Toad's +2 CON or the weasel's +2 Refex saves eg) to the master.

Open to any and all ideas though!

Mike Sullivan · Jun 6, 2003

Malin Genie said:
What Dexterity do you think would be reasonable, Mike?

Hmmm... 14ish? Or so? And a knock down to "Good" or "Average" manueverability, not "Perfect," as someone else suggested.

I'm not keen on the 'bonus to DC' - that's a very powerful familiar ability - usually they provide skill or save bonuses. The initial idea was the relatively high AC and flight would be compensated for by no natural attacks and either no bonus or a weak bonus (compared to the Toad's +2 CON or the weasel's +2 Refex saves eg) to the master.

Yeah, I agree.

Hey, how 'bout "Master doesn't need to eat," or reduced eating or whatever. To go along with the butterfly "only drinks nectar" concept. A somewhat flavourful ability that probably doesn't really make a big difference in play...

Malin Genie · Jun 6, 2003

How about "Master has access to the Dodge feat"

(...float like a butterfly, sting like a bee...)

in return for Dex 14 and low movement (see below)

While I agree butterflies look clumsy in flight, they can effectively hover and reverse direction almost instantaneously. OTOH, they're slow. I'd be inclined to give it 10ft move but perfect maneouverability.