13th Age: 4.75? Worth a play?

My group has been playing 5th since release. We played 4th before that.
Loved it, but time is a precious commodity and combat time, higher level option bloat, and
Dull magic items made us want something else. Now, 5th, being IMO quick but flat combat-wise
has us all looking for options. Is 13th Age the sweet spot? I'm looking for current players to
give me their 2 cents on feel, combat, and overall thoughts on the game before we invest heavily
in the system. Thanks!
 

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Redthistle

Explorer
Supporter
Definitely worth playing 13th Age.

It's my favorite game system at this time, even given my delight in 5e.

Our GM brought our game to the Midgard/Southlands setting for 13th Age, and then tweaked the campaign structure by setting milestones by season: Spring, Summer, and Autumn. Each game session covers one season. Complete all three seasons, and the PCs go up a level.

A game session has 3 major encounters and generally runs 6 hours.

In-game time spent moving from place-to-place or gathering information/supplies, etc., uses a wonderful game-mechanic. The players are asked open-ended questions, such as, "While traveling on the road to Zobeck, Dalioza, some event forced you off the road. What was it?" The next player gets asked about some complicating factor(s) in the situation, and another player gets asked about how it got resolved. Over a session's play, every player is likely to contribute more than once to creating the story as we go along.

We don't always have time to complete the full seasonal encounters during a game session. When that happens, the GM runs a quick "talk-through" where we learn about what was meant to happen. This is our work-around, since our lives prevent us from getting together as often as we'd like, and can sometimes go months before we can find a mutually available date to play.

A group able to meet say, bi-weekly, might well be able to complete the full 1st-10th level protocol in under a year. This kind of rapid advancement was one of the original desires of the game designers.

Every level advanced increases the attack roll bonus and the number of dice rolled for damage and/or other effects. A PC just gets better and better quickly.

There is not really a good option for multi-classing. The best bet is to pick a class and race and stick with it for all 10 levels.

Our GM introduced an optional Winter season that is a 1-on-1 adventure conducted by email between the player and the GM. (He took that idea from the Winter-over in the Pendragon game.) Not every player utilizes the Winter season option, but it does give greater depth to character development, and introduces the potential for taking Feats that are specifically designed for the PC.

Combat: We use miniatures and a white-board laid flat for combat. The GM draws quick layouts of the scene. There are two ranges: either nearby or long-range, and no grids are involved.

Theatre-of-the-Mind works very well for this game system, too. So much of the game, especially the player-contributed story aspects as play goes along, is really geared to TotM.

Minions share group hit-points, allocated equally. Example: If a group of 5 minions has 40 hit points, every time the number of hit points is reduced by 8 hp, that's one less minion.

The speed of combat moves fairly briskly, although real-world issues slow it down sometimes: calls of nature for the players, attention required for the host's pets, time spent searching for an obscure and dimly remembered rule (be it online or hardcopy, but there aren't so many rules that it happens often) or dice that go sailing off the table (too often), food delivery interruptions, etc.. Y'know: the Usual Suspects.

Overall, I like this game a lot. It's not over-burdened with source material and it plays quick and clean.

When I next DM a 5e game, I plan on importing some 13th Age ideas to speed up 5e play.

Our group shares a Dropbox account with all the non-"GM Only" published material and other group-specific information, such as a very short-list of House Rules. Don't really need those too much, anyway, as this game seems to have fewer subjective glitches than most.

All of the source books are available for purchase as pdfs.
 

Redthistle

Explorer
Supporter
One deficit that may have been resolved recently:

A lack of good mounted combat rules. There's a whole lot of walking going on.

If rules for this have come out recently, my PC wants to know. He's been saving up to buy a saddle.
 

GMMichael

Guide of Modos
combat time, higher level option bloat, and
Dull magic items made us want something else. Now, 5th, being IMO quick but flat combat-wise
has us all looking for options.

For faster combat, optional option bloat, and magic items as interesting as you can imagine, head to the ENDownloads: http://www.enworld.org/forum/rpgdownloads.php?do=download&downloadid=1210
The only investments you'll need are time spent imagining those magic items, and waiting for me to produce the consolidated (1.3 and 1.4), revised, and better-edited version 2.

A lack of good mounted combat rules. There's a whole lot of walking going on.
If rules for this have come out recently, my PC wants to know. He's been saving up to buy a saddle.
In case you're curious, the Modos RPG 1.4 mounted rules look like this:
- Use a movement action to enter mounted posture
- Mounted characters follow defensive posture rules unless...
- ...you want to attack an offensive opponent with a close-range weapon. If you do, you are considered to be in offensive posture during that action only.
- To remain in mounted posture, you must begin your next turn with another movement action.
Modos 2 will include a Pilot skill to use instead of Movement, because helmsmen, drivers, and pilots don't do a lot of "move"ing...
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
. Is 13th Age the sweet spot?!
sounds like it could be a good fit for you, though it's worth noting that 13A is I no way a 4.75 clone of 4e, it's really very like 5e in its goals, it just didn't have the option of turning back the clock.

Instead, 13a came up with some new tricks to evoke the old feel, without the old problems being quite so bad.

Those include the escalation die to speed up combat, encounters/'Full- heal- up' instead of per day to paper over class imbalance, backgrounds instead of skills, dice- roll- driven monster abilities, and default rules that actually facilitate TotM play.

If you've found both 4e & 5e disappointing, 13A might have the nuances you're looking for.
 
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RedSiegfried

First Post
I will also give thumbs up for 13A. It fixed a lot of the problems we encountered with 4e, which we all loved but was getting pretty long in the tooth, especially at higher levels. I will echo the sentiment that IMO, it's almost all of the things that I wanted 5e to be, but which 5e didn't quite achieve. 5e was okay, but 13A is much faster, cleaner, simpler and most importantly to me, grants much more agency to all the players, not just the GM (though a lot of rules are intentionally written to be interpreted more freely by the GM, and the designers explicitly state that).

It's definitely a game that is simple enough for all types of players to get into as a first RPG, but complex enough that it would probably work best with a more experienced GM.

I really like PC Backgrounds, Icon Relationships and One Unique Thing mechanics of 13A much better than 5e's Inspiration and related mechanics. The ideas work so well you can easily incorporate them into other RPGs too even if you don't like the way 13A plays in general.
 

You and Tony both said things that resonate with me. I don't really want another 4E clone. What I want is a game that has class balance, cool monsters that are vivid and interesting, and high-level gameplay that is not a headache. I love the idea of level cap at 10. I am concerned that 13A doesn't have tactical grid-based rules because I know that is something that my group and I love. But, I am sure with a little work, we can hammer out some house rules to make it work. Thank you all for your comments.
 

RedSiegfried

First Post
Speaking for myself, after using 13As zone/distance based movement with all positioning being relative, I really don't miss counting squares anymore! And believe me, I'm a complete freak for minis and battlemats. We still use them in all our 13A games, but the fact that you don't have to measure anything or count squares, and only concern yourself with whether something is engaged (in melee) with something else, nearby something else or far away from something else (which are all arbitrary assignments on the part of the GM) make the encounters go so much faster. And yes, you can still use tactical positioning, a rule that allows you to intercept enemies moving past you if you are unengaged, and optional rules for cover and concealment.

So in our group, we still get to have enough tactical play, without all the math and counting.

And if you don't like using minis and battlemats, the game still can be played in ToTM. I like having options.
 

76512390ag12

First Post
Mounted combat is a 13th Age Monthly document on Pelgrane Press shop.

I think 13th Age is exactly what you want, and bits of it can bleed into 5e.



Posted by C4-D4RS on the MetroLiberal HoloNet
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
You and Tony both said things that resonate with me. I don't really want another 4E clone.
'Another?'

What I want is a game that has class balance, cool monsters that are vivid and interesting, and high-level gameplay that is not a headache. I love the idea of level cap at 10.
Well, if the level cap is good enough for that last want, then the full heal- up trick is probably good enough for the first. 13A monsters are great, though, really designed to play the part of antagonist well.

I have to confess some disappointment in the player side, though. The classes & races really aren't well balanced (ok, they are by the very low standard set by D&D), and customization comes mainly in the form of reskinning and arbitrarily defined backgrounds. It's the kind of game could do with a shelf full is splat. ;)
I am concerned that 13A doesn't have tactical grid-based rules because I know that is something that my group and I love.
No worries, there, 13A lends itself readily to the use of minis, it wouldn't take much effort to graft on tactical bits from D&D. By the same token, lifting tricks from 13a - the escalation die, mooks, monster powers, rally, backgrounds, icons, or the zone based TotM rules - is pretty easy, too.
 

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