D&D 4E Rewards in 4e

I think I could use a milestone as a basis for awarding more Karma Points...

It seems inappropriate to reward "normal treasure" like its a higher level but adding the abstract reward in could work.

In HoML I merged APs and HS to form Vitality Points, which serve both purposes. They could also serve other purposes (they are required for some powers for instance). So, those could be returned at a milestone, but then I start to wonder if milestones are worth having as a separate item from short rests. Why not just give stuff back at a short rest? It just requires the right resource granularity for that to work...
 

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Werent you the one talking about old fashioned rewards? and hence I assumed old fashioned risk definitions



I mean the value of using that gold on expendables is to overcome old fashioned obstacles.... with less potential problems or implications

Well, this is part of the question, really. Has 4e obviated the whole concept? This all stemmed, for me, from the observation that 4e seemed to lack a basic reward driver, something very straightforward, and that consumables were suffering because all they could be paid for with was build options in effect.

So I was thinking of having a non-build-option type of reward. That's kinda where the thought that someone had above about magic and gold being separate bins, and non-material awards, etc. comes in. I still LIKE the idea of gold, its visceral. People understand it.
 


Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
In HoML I merged APs and HS to form Vitality Points, which serve both purposes. They could also serve other purposes (they are required for some powers for instance). So, those could be returned at a milestone, but then I start to wonder if milestones are worth having as a separate item from short rests. Why not just give stuff back at a short rest? It just requires the right resource granularity for that to work...

Ah yes I had considered collapsing action points and healing surges (as heroic surges) I like that quite a bit

One could just say the number of encounters you have been through since a rest increases karmic rewards...
 

Character rewards in 4e suffer in much the same way character rewards in superheroic games suffer: the capabilities of the character are by-and-large internal so it is hard to offer shiny baubles the player would strive for. By internal I mean either directly provided and powered by the character OR presented by a predictable mechanism in the game engine like the parcel system.

<snip>

4e suffers from having all characters able to access more generic genre-appropriate capability (stunting, page 42, etc.) This directly attacks providing powers/abilities as rewards since the group could plausibly achieve a similar result without gaining the reward.

Good post Nagol and I'm in general agreement (with the term "suffers" meaning that it inhibits certain play expectations). The only thing I'll say is that the second part is mitigated in degree. Expansion of breadth (access to what might be considered "poached" abilities of other classes) via the stunting system is (a) gated behind a Skill Check (typically at the Medium DC), (b) gated behind the present fictional positioning (you aren't triggering an AoE stalactite collapse under the open sky!), and (c) the reality that while your expression gained (damage + effect) is going to be beneficial, it generally won't be tricked out/synergized with PC build resources.

A, B, and C aside, (i) the Medium DC is typically attainable at a very high rate (75 % or more at a trained skill), (ii) failure of the Skill Check will only result in something like CA against you UEOYNT, (iii) the ease-of-use/transparency of stunting adjudication, and (iv) the genre logic + "say yes" and "interactive battlefield" principles of 4e will typically open up the fictional positioning to going with reasonable stunting action declarations.

I'm going to muse in text for a couple of minutes. This is stuff readers of this thread have already considered in all likelihood.

First a couple of assumptions are necessary to restrict the reward domain:
  • the reward is presented to the character and not directly to the player so simple bennies like rerolls/auto success tokens or chocolate chip cookies given to the players for interesting play don't count
  • the reward should be persistent across scenes and not just be a modifier available in the current encounter so scene combat modifiers and unlocking special actions don't count
  • any form of reward is going to affect gameplay either by altering breadth, capacity, or amplitude of abilities the character can project so offering cosmetic variations (an empty title, odd hair colour, whatever) don't count. Note that this category can and does spur some players to action, but the segment tends to be small.

<snip>

So a reward is likely to take the form of externalized secondary abilities the character can call on. There are a bunch of likely suspects that fit the base genre. In no particular order we have:

  • Additional Magic Items -- extra items in excess of the parcel system but deliberately more varied with the intent to broaden rather than deepen capability. Consumable items would be preferred so as to not to accumulate and clutter the character sheet over time.
  • Granted powers -- extra daily/.encounter/at-will power that offers interesting options. The power could be granted through reaching an inaccessible location, from a powerful patron, or mystical experience. Consumable or limited duration powers would be preferred so as to not to accumulate and clutter the character sheet over time.
  • Allies -- those who willingly provide their capabilities at the PCs direction.
  • Social perquisites -- extra "abilities" nominally gained inside civilisation typically awarded as part of entitlement or assuming specific roles in society such as arrest powers, dispensing low justice, troop command, etc. The use of these abilities is limited to those territories where deference is given which can be a real problem for 4e play, especially as the character become more 'mythic' in scope..

I'm going to do some musing myself for architecture currently available in 4e to accomplish things on your list (paying heed to your stipulations at the top).

Additional Magic Items - The current Artifact system covers this one. This can be extended further (with the understanding that it will impact the system's encounter budgeting precision). Consumables are typically purchased with the expectant level -1 wealth that PCs are assumed to be carrying (eg 5000 for an 11th level character).

Granted powers - As long as this one is about breadth/scope (x-axis growth) rather than focus/synergy (y-axis growth), this one doesn't impact the encounter budgeting in a particularly notable way. Companion characters increase breadth/scope and they don't create dysfunctional play. However, if you're inclined to give out some y-axis stuff either (a) understand it will impact encounter budgeting (and be ok with it) or (b) use the PCs level-1 wealth as the currency for it (although my guess is that is eeking into the territory of your stipulations).

Allies - Companion system covers this one nicely. You can offset the encounter budget for the Companion's contribution or not (not given what I believe you're looking for).

Social perquisites - 5e's Background Traits had forebears in 4e's Themes and Epic Destinies (Paragon Paths don't have a lot of it). For instance:

Masked Lord Level 5 Feature (5th level): When you are in Waterdeep or in a city or a town allied with Waterdeep, you always have access to a safe house warded against scrying and other forms of divination magic. Additionally, you always have access to safe transport to any known location within a day’s horse ride of the city.

and things like:

- Marshals of Letherna are given command over the upper echelons of the Raven Queen’s entourage.
- Darklords see the Shadowfell manifest a realm suited to them.

Things like this (typically to a much lesser degree than those of Epic Destinies) naturally accrue in the course of play. They may or may not be formalized (certainly the latter is preferable to me), but they still serve as a form of currency for PCs to call upon to influence GMs in their framing of conflicts (or transitioning of scenes) or to invoke as mechanized assets for conflicts to come.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
In HoML I merged APs and HS to form Vitality Points, which serve both purposes. They could also serve other purposes (they are required for some powers for instance). So, those could be returned at a milestone, but then I start to wonder if milestones are worth having as a separate item from short rests. Why not just give stuff back at a short rest? It just requires the right resource granularity for that to work...

Ah yes I had considered collapsing action points and healing surges (as heroic surges) I like that quite a bit

One could just say the number of encounters you have been through since a rest increases karmic rewards...


I also considered sticking the item daily cost in there...
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
In HoML I merged APs and HS to form Vitality Points, which serve both purposes. They could also serve other purposes (they are required for some powers for instance). So, those could be returned at a milestone, but then I start to wonder if milestones are worth having as a separate item from short rests. Why not just give stuff back at a short rest? It just requires the right resource granularity for that to work...

Ah yes I had considered collapsing action points and healing surges (as heroic surges) I like that quite a bit

One could just say the number of encounters you have been through since a rest increases karmic rewards...


I also considered sticking the item daily cost in there...
 

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