5E The Dangers of Overreliance on Leomund's Tiny Hut (3rd Level Spell)
Page 1 of 12 1234567891011 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 112
  1. #1

    The Dangers of Overreliance on Leomund's Tiny Hut (3rd Level Spell)

    I've seen a lot of discussion on how much a party of PCs can benefit from using Leomund's Tiny Hut, and the woes of some DMs having to deal with parties that rely on the spell too frequently.

    Over-reliance on the spell does not come without its drawbacks or dangers however.

    Here are some potentially overlooked facts.

    1. Although the dome is opaque from the outside, it is not invisible to other creatures.

    2. The dome does not necessarily block the sounds and odors produced from inside from being detected outside the dome. It may prevent the production of particularly powerful stenches (such as from defecation) inside it (since it keeps the atmosphere inside dry and comfortable), but other smells that would not normally bother the PCs will freely travel beyond the dome.

    3. Although the dome is transparent from the inside, it does not illuminate the surrounding area, nor can it prevent materials from covering the dome (effectively blocking the party's view of the outside).

    4. The dome does not provide privacy. If anyone needs to excrete bodily wastes, they will have to either leave the dome for privacy or find some other way to hide their bodily maintenance procedures.

    5. The dome does not anchor the ground that it is cast upon to the position it is in. If the ground breaks apart or otherwise shifts, the dome may shift with it (for example in the case of an earthquake or effect produced by a creature).

    6. Spending time inside the dome does not freeze the time outside of it. Other things may be going on while the PCs are resting...

    I don't think that the spell is broken as written. It will definitely make certain types of adventures much easier, but using it too much could lead to situations that are dangerous for the party, or can result in objective failures.

    What do you think?


    Quote Originally Posted by Oofta View Post

    • If someone fires a missile or throws a weapon at someone on the outside, it can then be used to attack people in the hut assuming it did not break. Normal guessing location and disadvantage applies.
    • Nothing stops a group of hobgoblins from approaching from behind a makeshift shield wall and then burying the hut in dry brush. Once covered the hobgoblins can pile wood on, add oil and lit torches balanced precariously on top of everything.*
    • Or just dig underneath.
    Quote Originally Posted by Storyteller Hero View Post
    Planar travel is something that I've been thinking about. Magical effects can't extend through or pass through the dome, but a magical effect created inside the dome could include some kind of movement across planes.


    A Ghost for example might be able to go into the ethereal plane and effectively bypass the dome's border by re-entering the material plane from inside the dome.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oofta View Post
    ...the ghost sinks into the ground and comes up from underneath.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manbearcat View Post
    Ok, here it is. Jeremy Crawford's Twitter's clarification (of which he is talking to himself in the third person to make fun of himself for an erroneous statement - that being "there is no floor" - a few months prior):

    "Leomund's tiny hut does have a floor, Mr. Crawford (read your own book). The spell's range entry says the effect is hemispherical. #DnD"


    Quote Originally Posted by Storyteller Hero View Post
    Hemisphere is defined as half of a sphere.


    Half of a hollow sphere however has no floor.


    A dome doesn't necessarily have a floor.


    The spell specifically states that it forms around and above, but does not state that it forms below. "Around" could also be interpreted as below.


    RAW, no floor is specified so it seems that it could be ruled either way at the table.


    Crawford might change his opinion again after thinking about the fact that a hemisphere doesn't necessarily even have a floor, especially if it's hollowed instead of solid.
    Last edited by Storyteller Hero; Friday, 10th March, 2017 at 10:30 PM.
    XP pukunui, Gardens & Goblins, Fanaelialae, CydKnight gave XP for this post

  2. #2
    While running PotA for my group, the party wizard loved to use this spell. In most cases, it worked fine. A couple times they did have problems - in one, the cultists used your idea to block line of sight, then set up ambushes and traps for when the party emerged. I also pointed out that the dome does not cover the ground, so bulettes, xorns, earth elementals, and other such creatures can easily get at the party while they rest. They never attempted to use the spell when Earth cultists were nearby.

    And in the vein of "what goes around, comes around", fire cultists used this exact spell to trap the party in one area of the temple. Basically, they let the party go through, then cast the spell to block that passage. The party didn't happen to have dispel magic prepared, so had no way of getting around it. This forced the party into a nasty fight they could otherwise have avoided.

    The spell is great, but limited, so I agree - it's not broken.

  3. #3
    The party is hiding under their Leomund's when a zombie wanders by. It throws itself at the dome, moaning loudly. The noise attracts another zombie. Then another. Then another…

    After a while there is a horde of zombies, writhing and crawling, moaning incessantly, bleeding disgusting fluids, completely covering the dome.

    First issue, can you get a good rest with the sights and sounds (and smells) of zombies a few feet away?

    Second issue, what happens when the dome disappears?

    Also, I love the suggestion of using the spell to corral the party. Consider the idea stolen. :-)
    Last edited by Greenstone.Walker; Friday, 10th March, 2017 at 02:36 AM.
    XP Bupp gave XP for this post

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    6,095
    Eh, it's easy enough to dispel, and what kind of NPC spellcaster wouldn't have that available? Very low-level ones, I suppose.

    It lets you turn off random encounters at night, but a random encounter in the middle of the night is unlikely to do much anyway, since the party would be back to full at the end of the rest. I can imagine an exploration-heavy campaign where the ability to rest without interruption from beasts would be a huge benefit, but it's not that big a deal in many other campaigns.
    XP Manbearcat gave XP for this post

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Twin Cities, MN
    Posts
    3,303
    There was a similar discussion in another thread not long ago (that may have triggered this).

    But to summarize:
    • People inside can still attack creatures outside with weapons or ranged attacks (just not spells).
    • If someone fires a missile or throws a weapon at someone on the outside, it can then be used to attack people in the hut assuming it did not break. Normal guessing location and disadvantage applies.
    • Nothing stops a group of hobgoblins from approaching from behind a makeshift shield wall and then burying the hut in dry brush. Once covered the hobgoblins can pile wood on, add oil and lit torches balanced precariously on top of everything.*
    • Or just dig underneath.



    *There are a lot of variations of this - simply bury the hut, cover it with pitch, and so on.
    XP Storyteller Hero gave XP for this post

  6. #6
    Planar travel is something that I've been thinking about. Magical effects can't extend through or pass through the dome, but a magical effect created inside the dome could include some kind of movement across planes.

    A Ghost for example might be able to go into the ethereal plane and effectively bypass the dome's border by re-entering the material plane from inside the dome.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Often in the garden.
    Posts
    743
    Tiny Hut?

    UNLEASH THE BULETTE!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Old Bridge, NJ
    Posts
    2,224
    It's easy for creatures who stumble across the effect (and can recognize it for what it is) to hide nearby and stage an ambush for when the hut effect ends. After all, anyone capable of casting a 3rd level spell probably has some good stuff worth taking. Sure the PCs just gained the benefits of a long rest, but surprise in 5e can be rather nasty! As such, the Hut may merely delay, rather than avert, random encounters. At least the PCs are at full hit points, so you don't need to hold back.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Storyteller Hero View Post
    Planar travel is something that I've been thinking about. Magical effects can't extend through or pass through the dome, but a magical effect created inside the dome could include some kind of movement across planes.

    A Ghost for example might be able to go into the ethereal plane and effectively bypass the dome's border by re-entering the material plane from inside the dome.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gardens & Goblins View Post
    Tiny Hut?

    UNLEASH THE BULETTE!
    Quote Originally Posted by Oofta View Post
    [*]Or just dig underneath.]
    This spell is stupidly powerful for its level and always has been. Now it can be cast as a Ritual so its even better (At least prior Vancian Wizards had to spend a spell slot on it)! There are some missing parts here happening and some misinterpretations:

    1) It is a dome of force. Force effects historically extend into the Ethereal Plane. Therefore, no travel from the Ethereal into the hut nor the usage of travel forms that leverage the Ethereal Plane work to get into the hut. You better be able to specifically bypass Force effects if you're going to enter.

    2) "...extends around and above you" and "the atmosphere inside the space is comfortable and dry, regardless of the weather outside." Now this is interesting. Historically (all prior editions), the spell has always been a "sphere" rather than "dome" or "hemisphere." So, I suppose I can see how folks would infer that "around you" does not incorporate "beneath". Further, when hemispheres are depicted, you may see them being represented volumetrically...or not.

    However, I don't make this inference for the following reasons:

    a) Most importantly, "The atmosphere inside the space is comfortable and dry, regardless of the weather outside." It is physically impossible for this to be the default situation without an insulating substrate to keep out environmental exposure. If there is no "Force Substrate" underneath you and you're in the frozen tundra and you put down a Tiny Hut...you're freezing to death...it is not "comfortable and dry, regardless of the weather outside." Extend that same principle to any other environment/exposure.

    b) This is a 3rd level spell. If the trivial act of digging underneath was a means to siege the hut, Archmage Leomund would have never created the spell. And it certainly wouldn't be 3rd level anyway.

    c) It wouldn't surprise me if this was just 5e designer shorthand, thinking volumetric hemisphere is easier to handle than sphere. And thus the change from prior editions wouldn't spark mass online debates at this and ACTUALLY INCREASE MENTAL OVERHEAD DURING PLAY AND INCREASE TABLE HANDLING TIME while people try to resolve the implications.

    d) Jeremy Crawford has already resolved this...after he "unresolved" it first. It has a floor.

    3) On camouflage. The hut is (same as historically) "opaque from the outside, or any color you choose." Historically, Wizards have been able to camouflage this (same as creatures do in the wild) to meld into the backdrop. In 5e, the adjudication of this (or at least how I've done it) should be an Arcana vs Perception contest. I suppose if you're feeling this is really difficult for the super-powered Wizards of D&D to do, then you could force that Arcana at Disadvantage (I haven't).

    Further, your friendly neighborhood Ranger (or anyone with a Wisdom/Survival check) could just camouflage the hut (or maybe give the Wizard Advantage on their Arcana check).

    Quote Originally Posted by Saelorn View Post
    Eh, it's easy enough to dispel, and what kind of NPC spellcaster wouldn't have that available? Very low-level ones, I suppose.

    It lets you turn off random encounters at night, but a random encounter in the middle of the night is unlikely to do much anyway, since the party would be back to full at the end of the rest. I can imagine an exploration-heavy campaign where the ability to rest without interruption from beasts would be a huge benefit, but it's not that big a deal in many other campaigns.
    That is pretty much it. Level 5+ Spellcasters about with Dispel Magic known and slotted? If their allies (or they via Detect Magic or perhaps an opposed Arcana, rather than Perception, if you're feeling particularly adversarial...probably because LTH has reset the workday many times before!) can perceive the camouflaged hut, then...boomshkies. You're good.

    However, I'm sure you remember the DC 30...DC 35 thread. I was told with much enthusiasm that Dispel Magic (like LTH) is a crap spell! So who would possibly have it learned/memorized!?
    XP CydKnight, Tony Vargas, FormerlyHemlock gave XP for this post

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Twin Cities, MN
    Posts
    3,303
    Quote Originally Posted by Manbearcat View Post
    1) It is a dome of force. Force effects historically extend into the Ethereal Plane. Therefore, no travel from the Ethereal into the hut nor the usage of travel forms that leverage the Ethereal Plane work to get into the hut. You better be able to specifically bypass Force effects if you're going to enter.
    First, can you give a reference in the current ruleset? If not this is a DM call.

    Second, the ghost sinks into the ground and comes up from underneath. Unless you give the hut a floor that it does not state that it has.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manbearcat View Post
    2)hemispheres are depicted
    A hemisphere is literally half of a sphere. Half of a hollow sphere does not include a "floor".

    Quote Originally Posted by Manbearcat View Post
    a) Most importantly, "The atmosphere inside the space is comfortable and dry, regardless of the weather outside." It is physically impossible for this to be the default situation without an insulating substrate to keep out environmental exposure. If there is no "Force Substrate" underneath you and you're in the frozen tundra and you put down a Tiny Hut...you're freezing to death...it is not "comfortable and dry, regardless of the weather outside." Extend that same principle to any other environment/exposure.
    Umm ... magic anyone? This is not a physical structure, it's a magical one.


    Quote Originally Posted by Manbearcat View Post
    b) This is a 3rd level spell. If the trivial act of digging underneath was a means to siege the hut, Archmage Leomund would have never created the spell. And it certainly wouldn't be 3rd level anyway.

    c) It wouldn't surprise me if this was just 5e designer shorthand, thinking volumetric hemisphere is easier to handle than sphere. And thus the change from prior editions wouldn't spark mass online debates at this and ACTUALLY INCREASE MENTAL OVERHEAD DURING PLAY AND INCREASE TABLE HANDLING TIME while people try to resolve the implications.

    d) Jeremy Crawford has already resolved this...after he "unresolved" it first. It has a floor.
    Good to know you can derive intent of not only a fictional character, but the WOTC design team.

    It's a hollow hemisphere and does not state it has a floor. That's all the rules say ... feel free to add to the rules all you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manbearcat View Post

    3) On camouflage. The hut is (same as historically) "opaque from the outside, or any color you choose." Historically, Wizards have been able to camouflage this (same as creatures do in the wild) to meld into the backdrop. In 5e, the adjudication of this (or at least how I've done it) should be an Arcana vs Perception contest. I suppose if you're feeling this is really difficult for the super-powered Wizards of D&D to do, then you could force that Arcana at Disadvantage (I haven't).

    Further, your friendly neighborhood Ranger (or anyone with a Wisdom/Survival check) could just camouflage the hut (or maybe give the Wizard Advantage on their Arcana check).
    Imagine you're walking through a forest. You look over and there's a tent. One of those big family size 10 foot tall, 20 foot diameter tents in a small clearing. Do you think you would notice it, even if it was green?

    That's a hut colored green. Why would you not see it? Even if it was covered in brush? If you have someone in the party that can apply camoflauge and if your party takes the time to apply it then you need to determine a DC based on the skill used to do the camoflauge. But it's still a pretty dang huge structure.

    Admittedly it's going to depend on distance and all sorts of other environmental factors. I would rule that all you can change the color of the hut to a single monochromatic color. It doesn't say it has chameleon-like powers, or that it can have camaflouge-like markings. You can't make it invisible.

    IMHO you are making a useful spell highly overpowered. That's your prerogative, but to paraphrase The Princess Bride, "I do not think it means what you think it means".

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Similar Threads

  1. Rope Trick vs. Leomund's Tiny Hut and better.
    By BlueBlackRed in forum *Pathfinder, Starfinder, Older D&D Editions (4E, 3.x, 2E, 1E, OD&D), D&D Variants, OSR
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: Wednesday, 3rd October, 2018, 09:34 PM
  2. Leomund's Tiny Hut Question
    By Fractal Rabbit in forum *D&D 5th Edition
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: Saturday, 2nd April, 2016, 06:08 PM
  3. Leomund's Tiny Hut and Hunters
    By trentonjoe in forum *D&D 5th Edition
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Sunday, 14th June, 2015, 03:12 PM
  4. Leomund's Tiny Hut
    By travathian in forum *D&D 5th Edition
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: Monday, 6th April, 2015, 06:39 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •