Woe is me: Character choices

Ark the Pie King · Mar 11, 2017

Hello hello! Long time 4e fan, first time poster.

I'm having some trouble deciding on what to play in an upcoming 4e game. It's starting at 4th level, and I think I may be suffering from option overload. You know, when everything sounds good so nothing does? The same thing happens when I try to play a video game but I'm not in the mood for a specific thing.

The other part of my problem is I have kind of a weird comfort zone when it comes to what I like, and I have a boatload of trouble stepping out of that comfort zone. See, I don't much like low damage, high utility characters, nor do I like high damage, low utility characters. I pretty much have to exist somewhere in the middle. The most fun I've ever had in a 4e game was a slightly houseruled Gloom Pact Hexblade. Sliding, proning, dazing, immobilizing with Otherwind Stride (hence the houserule), etc. It was just so much fun, and I always felt like I had a choice to make. To be fair I did also thoroughly enjoy a Valor Bard as well back in the early days of the game.

Right now my friends are encouraging my to step out of that comfort zone, and it's proving to be really difficult. Currently what I've got statted up is a Desert Wind Monk, and it's *almost* scratching the itch. I really like the idea of having to figure out the position of myself and my enemies to get the most out of Light the Fire and Burning Brand. It's just not quite there. For one thing, I'm familiar with the Monk's reputation as being a lackluster striker, and that's really making me hesitant to dedicate myself to a pure damage build. For another thing, I'm worried it's going to stick in the back of my mind that I could be doing something more useful than just pure damage.

Well, this is getting rambly. Any advice on any facet of my issues would be super awesome. Hope y'all have a great weekend too!

Herobizkit · Mar 11, 2017

Monks are primarily Controllers despite they seem to LOOK like Strikers. Desert Wind powers certainly add some delicious Cha damage.

... but if you went Fighter and M/C monk, you can do some pretty gross damage.

darkbard · Mar 11, 2017

Have you read the Monk's Handbook here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...e-Traditions-A-4e-Monk-Handbook&prefixid=wotc ?

Monks are quite interesting as strikers for their mobility, ability to target multiple foes in combat, and diverse skill set. They are far more than sheer damage outputs in combat! In fact, very much along the brief outline you provide suggests what you're looking to do, more so than a Ranger or Sorcerer usually is, for example. But on that note, can you be a little more specific about what you mean? Are you simply looking for character build tips with regard to combat that place you middle of the road, neither a drain on the party's resources nor outshining the rest of the table? Or is there more than damage output that you find yourself struggling with?

Ark the Pie King · Mar 11, 2017

Hey, thanks for the advice! I have read the Monk's Handbook before. I tend to do a lot of reading when I make a character. Let me see if I can explain the problem a little bit better now that it's not 2am.

I like to play characters that give me meaningful choices. I want to look at the grid and think to myself 'How can I get the most out of my character this turn, and what can I do to set myself and my party up for success in later turns?' By and large I get that feeling from playing the aforementioned controlley-strikers. My friends are trying to get me to try something new and do something largely different. Even though the Desert Wind Monk doesn't do really any kind of control at all and is just a decently mobile damage dealer, I feel like at least in theory it can scratch that itch since I really have to look at my positioning and plan ahead to get the most out of my encounter powers. However, if I were to drop a little bit of damage in exchange for a little bit of control, what would you all recommend? Eternal Mountain is definitely an attractive power choice, as is Wind through the Willows. The other part is I really can't shake that honestly? I think Iron Soul just looks like it would be more fun and would be more conducive to both my play style and my power choice. But again, maybe I'm just crazy and I really will have a ton of fun with the more damage centric Desert Wind build.

Arikabeth · Mar 12, 2017

So you're trying to have the cake and eat it too kinda by playing a class that does high damage instead of medium damage, but sneak in some utility/choices (instead of "I use my highest damage ability over and over" or "I have 5 utility low damage stuff to select from depending on the situation") because you want to step out of your comfort zone and go with your friend's suggestion (just not all the way?).

I think Monk with all its mobility option from full discipline skills usable in any order sounds like a good idea, just .. be honest with your friends that you're not completely ditching the "have a lot choices" part of "have some choices/utility and medium damage" so they know you're meeting them half the way but still want to be partially in your comfort zone? Sorry if misunderstood you or misinterpreted your intent anyway.

I also think Monks are not that bad - even though, while I haven't played one, I guess the class may inherently be weaker due to it being designed to be good at multi-target striking, while the game tends to reward bursting down one target quickly instead of spreading the love (but even then, the difference between the power level of classes in 4E is generally miniscule enough that it shouldn't really be an issue).

If the reason why your friends want you to play less choicy stuff is because you end up spending too much time thinking about options, it could help to make and print out a page with an overview of your powers. I'm sure someone has a fancy better version, but as an example of how to make you could it peak at the "powers" section at this page: http://iplay4e.appspot.com/characters/agdpcGxheTRlchQLEgtDaGFyYWN0ZXJWMhiZ0bYIDA

I usually make a page somewhat like that for my characters with overview of powers (while cutting away all the generic actions like delay, end grab, etc.)

NB: The character linked isn't really optimized by CharOP standards, and has a lot of fire powers just for the sake of ... having much fire-related things. so wouldn't recommend looking at the powers/items that hard

. But it is a non-optimized Desert Wind monk if you want to peak at it anyway.

Ark the Pie King · Mar 12, 2017

The reason they want me to play something out of my comfort zone is...uh...to do something different? My reputation isn't exactly unwarranted. I've got a Final Fantasy 1 Red Mage tattooed on my back. I've always had a love for jack-of-all-trades since I was introduced to Erdrick in Dragon Warrior as a toddler. Just the idea of someone who can quickly fill in for someone else, and is generally always an asset without outshining anyone has always had a huge appeal for me. I wanna help dang it! lol

But it looks like the problem may have resolved itself. Another player just decided she wants to play a ranger which really takes the pressure off me to provide burst damage. Our Defender is actually a hybrid Wizard/Assault Swordmage who's probably going to operate more like a controller. This actually makes me think an Iron Soul Monk would slot into the party really nicely, helping lock down another part of the battlefield as a psuedo-defender while still pumping out respectable damage. Or I could possibly fling myself in the opposite direction and try my hand at making an honest to god Controller, but I'm not sure how I feel about that idea just yet.

MwaO · Mar 12, 2017

Monk as Striker - you want the at-will Lion's Den, a 12 Con, Centered Breath, and a way of adding bonus damage that will add to any damage, not just damage rolls. Such as Sarifal Feywarden & a Frost dagger. Or WereX+Claw Gloves+Hybrid Form at 10th. Or Lasting Frost at 11th. Or Radiant Fist at 11th who gets to take Solar Power for vulnerability to radiant damage and add radiant damage to all attacks after an AP.

So as an example at 4th level, a Monk who worships Sehanine takes Silvery Glow(+2 feat to damage), has a +1 Frost Dagger, and a Dragon Shard of frost damage(+1 damage). Is an Elf with 21 Dex, 16 Wis, 13 Con. They take Sarifal's Blessing as a Theme.

So, goes something like this:
Move to target
Minor: Sarifal's Blessing.
Standard: Lion's Den for 1d6+5+1+2+1+5
Centered Breath for 3+2
Lion's Den slash for 1+5(which can be used 1/turn after that)

So 28.5 damage, plus 6 damage once/turn after that if something moves adjacent to him. AP for a 2nd use and that damage is 52 from at-wills in round 1. Perfectly respectable for a Striker at 4th level, right? And Elven Accuracy will help make sure you land that damage.

Your damage will drop after round 2, but then you start using your other options...

So something like:
1: Cunning Stalker
2: Silvery Glow
4: Ki Focus Expertise