D&D 5E Let's discuss the Mystic v.3

Erechel

Explorer
I really like the mechanic of psychic focus and the flexibility to change with a bonus action. It isn't OP at all:
- What restrict the use of focus is the number of disciplines you can get, to make Adaptative Body focus useful, you need to take that discipline, and to many builds don't worth one of your few slots, even with that great focus.
-Still need a bonus action to change, and mystic have a billion use for bonus action
-In Adaptative Body case, when you change it, you'll get all effects of hungry, if you engage in a combat and want to change it, you need one bonus action to do that, again, you need to delay another bonus action use. Don't say anything about thirst too.
Absolutely nothing says that you get all effects of hungry, whatsoever. In fact, it hints just the opposite:"you don't need to eat, breath eand sleep": the times in which you have not to eat, you don't accumulate hungry, they don't count as days without eating. Let's suppose that you are crossing a desert, with a few scarce combats and skill challenges; asume you are a level 1 immortal. You walk for three days. You keep active your AB focus until you need other small bonus (let's say, an angry lion is lurking around): you switch to Bestial Form to gain Advantage on the Animal Handling check, then go back to AP in an instant. You have passed 1 minute interacting with the lion, that is the ammount of time in which hunger accumulates. You switch again to AB. You don't need to eat anymore, so the 1 minute is lost. Then you have to climb a cliff: you change your focus again to Brute Force. You climb for an hour or so with advantage (saying ":):):):) you" to the rogue and the fighter, who are hungry and at disadvantage for exhaustion). You then change again to AB. Your comrades are fainting, they almost fall twice, and they are hungry again. You aren't. Then you reach a deep lake. You can, theoretically, grow gills for 2 pps and breathe water. Why should you? You keep AB going, so you don't even need to breath or swim. You aren't worried. You just walk below water, retrieve whatever you are looking for, and walk out of the water.

You haven't used a single PP, nor accumulated exhaustion. You then have to fight with a :):):):)ing green dragon: the beast unleashes its powerful breath weapon... and you just walk away, because you aren't breathing. The dwarven fighter besides you is dying nevertheless, because its resistance cant stop the 70 poison damage he just received, he only could halve it to 35 (18 if the saving throw was succesful). You didn't even cough. And the last night you also made all shifts in the guard, replacing the elven druid, because you didn't needed to sleep (of course, the druid is dead because of the dragon's breath).

You even laugh, because you could use the PPs to fuel your other abilities (eg, smashing the dragon against a wall with your 2d10(+2)+1d6 claws, and stomping it against a wall at 10 feet for another 1d6, because you CAN use the three effects as once: an action, a bonus action and a reaction). You then walk to the sunset.
You just outperformed anyone in the party at level 1, even specialists, without needing even to use a single pp. If you use them to damage the dragon, you add insult to injury. Of course, if you need, you CAN use some PPs to outperform anyone else on survival only (did anyone say "swimming speed" and resistance to the extreme temperatures?). I just made something perfectly legal with the current rules. At level 1. You just pissed over the psi limits per effect, as you only had used different effects with different timings. You pissed over the very need of that. I didn't even bring the extra hit points and the Unarmored defense.
-Many disciplines with great focus don't have great use for PP, vice versa.
-Don't fit a campaing setting isn't an exclusive problem from mystic. Many other races/classes can be vetoed. I don't like Assess Foe, because I don't want to preset hp for some creatures, but I don't see any problem if they print this, I'll change in my table.
"It isn't broken if you can fix it" is the same to say "It is broken". It's a fallacy. Also, we are discussing psionics, not other races/classes. Of course there are some stupidly good options (Did someone say Figther/Death Cleric multiclass?), but here we are discussing something else.
make an exercise, a character concept at lvl 11, with 7 disciplines to choose (5 as Soul Knive), you'll see that you'll only get two or three usefull focus for that build. And you may have abdicated from another useful stuffs for that.
I did it. At level 1. And I did it again at level 16, for my own campaign. The disciplines are awfully abarcative: see for example Mastery of Force and add it to the immortal I've just made. Add the awfully big number of PPs (the same immortal, at level 11th with only those disciplines is doing 7d10+7d6+70 feet push for another 7d6+(Str)+1d8 (Potent Psionics): you are about 88 points of damage on average. God save your enemies if you crit. You just expended 1/3 of its PPs, and you also can give him 9 extra pps which doesn't count as concentration, for immunity to suffocation and fire for an hour and +2 to CA for tough hide (because we can), and a telekinetic barrier (because I need another discipline to have 4) . You are simply a monster. You can even go aggro, because falling below 0 don't kill you (although ends your AB), but you also gain temporary HPs every round. Go. Fight an adult golden dragon for yourself: you will probably kill it in a few rounds.

The fact is that Psychic Focus didn't even need to be there at all. It has no limits whatsoever, a bonus action is a tiny little thing, and most of the time, if you have minimal time of preparation, you can use whichever you want. In combat isn't as broken, but it is the ultimate survival character. He can survive naked in the moon mentally screaming "I can survive the extreme cold of the void, suckers".
 
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Erechel

Explorer
Nice little exercise back there. The only thing I should add would be: Cthulhu_VS_the_Flying_Nun_by_Coelasquid.jpg
 

Xeviat

Hero
Does the green dragon breath say it needs to be breathed in? Otherwise, won't everyone just hold their breath for the three rounds you're fighting said dragon?


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zaratan

First Post
Absolutely nothing says that you get all effects of hungry, whatsoever. In fact, it hints just the opposite:"you don't need to eat, breath eand sleep": the times in which you have not to eat, you don't accumulate hungry, they don't count as days without eating.
This is your interpretation, other DMs can easily see that different if they want balance it.
And walk too much or run for too long still gives you exhaustion.

Looks like your problem is the Adaptative body focus, not how focus work. If don't fit in your table, don't aprove it.
There are plenty of campaings that don't care much about survival (like a city one) and don't have much elemental damage, so adaptative body is useless in that case.
Goodberry isn't that different about food part, 1 lvl spell slot to satiate 10 men for a day, your psrty will not slow you now, unlike mystic options. Purify food and water can do it for free in 10 min.

You haven't used a single PP, nor accumulated exhaustion. You then have to fight with a :):):):)ing green dragon: the beast unleashes its powerful breath weapon... and you just walk away, because you aren't breathing. The dwarven fighter besides you is dying nevertheless, because its resistance cant stop the 70 poison damage he just received, he only could halve it to 35 (18 if the saving throw was succesful). You didn't even cough. And the last night you also made all shifts in the guard, replacing the elven druid, because you didn't needed to sleep (of course, the druid is dead because of the dragon's breath).
??? Adaptative body don't gives you immunity to poison. If a naja spit poison in your face, you aren't immune because you hold your breath. You're seeing green's dragon breath wrong.
2- even if you had immunity, as a DM, I would to choose other monster if I want a challange for you.
You can make your 30 AC guy, when I eant to hit you, I will ain your -1 str ST. This is how DMs deal with those things.

You even laugh, because you could use the PPs to fuel your other abilities (eg, smashing the dragon against a wall with your 2d10(+2)+1d6 claws, and stomping it against a wall at 10 feet for another 1d6, because you CAN use the three effects as once: an action, a bonus action and a reaction). You then walk to the sunset.
How many pp you spent for that and how did you get the +2? How much str you have to hit when you need dex, con and int? Cus there is a bunch of classes that deal more damage at will.

You just outperformed anyone in the party at level 1, even specialists, without needing even to use a single pp. If you use them to damage the dragon, you add insult to injury. Of course, if you need, you CAN use some PPs to outperform anyone else on survival only (did anyone say "swimming speed" and resistance to the extreme temperatures?). I just made something perfectly legal with the current rules. At level 1. You just pissed over the psi limits per effect, as you only had used different effects with different timings. You pissed over the very need of that. I didn't even bring the extra hit points and the Unarmored defense.
You painted the perfect scenario. Psyonic are probably too strong at lvl 1? Well moon druids are too at lvl 2, and are immortals at 20, but from 5 to 19, they are on the same level of the rest. And I imagine that mystic will be too in his final version, but don't believe that how focus work will change, this isn't the problem at all.

I did it. At level 1. And I did it again at level 16, for my own campaign. The disciplines are awfully abarcative: see for example Mastery of Force and add it to the immortal I've just made. Add the awfully big number of PPs (the same immortal, at level 11th with only those disciplines is doing 7d10+7d6+70 feet push for another 7d6+(Str)+1d8 (Potent Psionics): you are about 88 points of damage on average. God save your enemies if you crit. You just expended 1/3 of its PPs, and you also can give him 9 extra pps which doesn't count as concentration, for immunity to suffocation and fire for an hour and +2 to CA for tough hide (because we can), and a telekinetic barrier (because I need another discipline to have 4) . You are simply a monster. You can even go aggro, because falling below 0 don't kill you (although ends your AB), but you also gain temporary HPs every round. Go. Fight an adult golden dragon for yourself: you will probably kill it in a few rounds.
"just expended 1/3 of its PPs", JUST? 1/3 of your resources in one turn at lvl 16 is "just"? You know that normal adventure day hve 6-8 encounters and combat encounters about 3-4 rounds avg each, right?
You know that a sorlock with eldritch blast, hex and twin can burn his spell slot and do 8d10 +8d6 +40 at will? And still have some spell slots to use.
But we are rambling, the subject is focus. Which was the 9 focus you got choosing your disciplines at lvl 16? And how unbalanced is changing they with a bonus action when you want to? I bet that if have some balance problem, will be in one or two focus option, not in the system that how you change them. Just because most of them aren't a big deal.

If you want to choose the system to short or long rest change, 90% need to be way better than it is now.
 
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hejtmane

Explorer
Well then I'd say:
13 INT to MC out of or in to
Grants Light armor and simple weapons
No skills
Disciplines, Points, and Talents are obviously tracked separately from Spells/spells known
And, if you don't have proficiency in Wisdom saves then you can't switch your proficiency in Wisdom saves.

Edit: Also you'd need to take a look at Soul Knife. Level 1 dip gives something stronger than a feat.

Same could be said for warlock or fighter
 

Belltent

First Post
Same could be said for warlock or fighter

One certainly could. Don't really buy that for the fighter. Armor? Can get several places. Weapons? Can get several places. Warlock, I grant you; eldritch blast cheese is cheesy, but past cheese shouldn't justify the inclusion of future cheese, and future cheese doesn't absolve past cheese of it's cheesiness.
 

hejtmane

Explorer
One certainly could. Don't really buy that for the fighter. Armor? Can get several places. Weapons? Can get several places. Warlock, I grant you; eldritch blast cheese is cheesy, but past cheese shouldn't justify the inclusion of future cheese, and future cheese doesn't absolve past cheese of it's cheesiness.
Fighting style and action surge. Heck action surge by itself is better than most feats even as a career the ability to take another full action on a short or long rest.

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Erechel

Explorer
This is your interpretation, other DMs can easily see that different if they want balance it.
And walk too much or run for too long still gives you exhaustion.
There is absolutely no guidelines to adjudicate exhaustion from a day of adventure, unless you are a barbarian with frenzy. Unless you pass several hours without sleeping, you don't eat for several days or yu don't drink any water. Climbing a mountain (RAW) don't increase exhaustion. You can do a ruling about it, but RAW, it doesn't say anything like that. I'm not to parch failures in any game if I don't want to, or else I would be playing AD&D.
Looks like your problem is the Adaptative body focus, not how focus work. If don't fit in your table, don't aprove it.
There are plenty of campaings that don't care much about survival (like a city one) and don't have much elemental damage, so adaptative body is useless in that case.
Fallacy. When it comes to relevance, it is broken. They are abilities focused on survival. You can dismiss also balance in combat and give champions triple dice of damage every time they hit with a weapon, and +10 to hit. Why worry about combat balance if your adventures are going to be intrigue on a city or exploration of the wilderness?
Goodberry isn't that different about food part, 1 lvl spell slot to satiate 10 men for a day, your psrty will not slow you now, unlike mystic options. Purify food and water can do it for free in 10 min.
It expends a resource (spell slots and spells memorized). And it also requires material components (most DMs don't bother about it, but I do, and RAW the need is there. A sprig of mistletoe its a fairly specific component; a desert or jungle druid, EG, dont' have anything like it). And as I said earlier, it is a fallacy. We are discussing the Mystic here, and I never denied that there are other stupidly good options. Purify food and water is an awesome utility spell (one of my personal favourites, in fact), but you still need to eat and you still need food in the adequate quantities. It only prevents from spoiling or be poisoned by it. And a druid must have it prepared to cast it as a ritual, as it has no magic book.
??? Adaptative body don't gives you immunity to poison. If a naja spit poison in your face, you aren't immune because you hold your breath. You're seeing green's dragon breath wrong.
I'm not "seeing it wrong". I'm seeing it RAW. Green dragon's breath is a gas. You don't breath. I don't know what a naja is. Cloudkill, EG, explicitly says that it affects creatures that don't need to breath too, the green dragon's breath don't. You could make a ruling about it, but, as I said earlier, there is no clear line about it, other than certain spells that specifically state that their targets don't need to breath to be affected.
2- even if you had immunity, as a DM, I would to choose other monster if I want a challange for you.
You can make your 30 AC guy, when I eant to hit you, I will ain your -1 str ST. This is how DMs deal with those things.
Yes, you could choose any other enemy. See the monstruous damage the mystic does by punching. To compromise, let's take away the +2 from Strength. You still do at level 11th 7d10 from claws+7d6 from brute strike+7d6 (70 feet push) from knock back+1d8 Potent Psionics at 11th level, for less than a third of your resources (21 pps -you have 64 plus 9 "special"); let's say you have +4 to hit. You still have double concentration (as if you need it, most effects don't need it) to make other things. Go through the Monster Manual and see how many monsters expel gas. I did it when the mystic come around and from the dr to the go I've founded at least ten. As for the 30 AC, see how many creatures have something like it. I tell you: 0. The most armored creature is the Ancient Red Dragon, with 23 AC. An optimized figther with 20 on strength would need a 21 to hit that creature at the same level (+9), 19 if it is a champion or an archer. To create a challenge to the mystic, you screw anyone else in the party. The same old problem it has the wizard in prior editions.
How many pp you spent for that and how did you get the +2? How much str you have to hit when you need dex, con and int? Cus there is a bunch of classes that deal more damage at will.
Already explained: 4, at level 1. The psi limit is for a single effect, not for round. If you are level 11 and want to make that monstruous damage, 21. Rememeber that I've cited the very first three disciplines (bestial form, adaptative body, brute force). I'm sure that there are more broken options afterwards.
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You painted the perfect scenario. Psyonic are probably too strong at lvl 1? Well moon druids are too at lvl 2, and are immortals at 20, but from 5 to 19, they are on the same level of the rest. And I imagine that mystic will be too in his final version, but don't believe that how focus work will change, this isn't the problem at all.
Psionics are probably too strong at level 11th too and 20th, as they do escalate by level (the moon druid also had to know the creatures in which it shapeshifts; so if he never see a dire wolf and instead saw worgs, its most powerful option is moot. Even in dire wolf form its AC is very low, so it will be hit often). The moon druid, although awfully strong at level 20, still can be killed by a single disintegration spell. I'm not saying that the druid don't need a little balance (sure as hell it needs it; I'm currently trying with their wild form sharing the HP pool of the character, and if the creature has more HP, they are considered temporary hit points, but if it falls to 0 in dire wolf form, it remains on 0 on humanoid form), but as I said earlier, we are discussing the mystic here. And the mystic at level 20 don't even die, he just vanishes and reapears a few days later.
"just expended 1/3 of its PPs", JUST? 1/3 of your resources in one turn at lvl 16 is "just"? You know that normal adventure day hve 6-8 encounters and combat encounters about 3-4 rounds avg each, right?You know that a sorlock with eldritch blast, hex and twin can burn his spell slot and do 8d10 +8d6 +40 at will? And still have some spell slots to use.
So it has a great nova. And a correction: what I'm giving you is at level 11, not level 16th. You can do all that freaky damage at level 11th in a single class. At that point, a sorlock would be 6th/5th, so your maximum spell slot will be at level 3. And it is an optimized multiclass for DAMAGE. Here, it still has a lot of both damage and utility, with a lot more survivability.
But we are rambling, the subject is focus. Which was the 9 focus you got choosing your disciplines at lvl 16? And how unbalanced is changing they with a bonus action when you want to? I bet that if have some balance problem, will be in one or two focus option, not in the system that how you change them. Just because most of them aren't a big deal.

If you want to choose the system to short or long rest change, 90% need to be way better than it is now.

Yes, we are discussing Psychic Focus. Psychic focus allows you to change the powers as needed to the task you need whenever you need it, excluding combat. For combat, as I've said earlier, they aren't as powerful, but for the OTHER pillars it's freakingly powerful. If you want some focus, at level 16th, I'll tell you:

1) Adaptative Body: incredibly powerful for utility and survival.
2) (Bestial Form): moot, incredibly marginal skill check. It has some use in combat, though.
3) Brute Force: Advantage on Athletics checks. Not even as useful as the 7th.
4) Diminution: Advantage on Stealth
5) Mantle of Fear: advantage on Intimidation.
7) Mastery of Force: Advantage on Strength checks. Athletics and saving throws included; it is about a +5 on every freaking strength check.
8) Mastery of Air: You ignore difficult terrain, and you have Feather Fall always active on yourself, without having to expend a single resource.
9)Telepathic Contact: Because telepathy is fun.

You change them as needed, granting you advantage on strength, telepathy, feather fall or difficult terrain for exploration, and if you need underwater exploration you don't have to renounce to your AB. You have advantage on Intimidation when you need to interact, and telepathy when you need stealth and communication.

I'm not even counting talents, ASIs or proficiencies.

You change them back whenever you need it too. In combat, if you have some intel, you can change your wisdom ST for another save if you need (although it would be stupid to change them for Strength), your potent psionics do 2d8 every time you hit, and you can mind thrust anyone with your high intelligence. You can nova, and concentrate on multiple effects with your 2 Psionic Masteries and 18 extra PPs, so concentration isn't a thing for you. You also cannot die, as you recover 5 temporary hit points every round, you have 16 extra HPs, and you can create inertial armor and though hide to further bump your AC (for a total of +4). Let's say you are subpar, and you have 10 str, 14 on Dex and Con, 20 on Int, 10 at wis and Cha: on average you have 128 hit points, and 18 AC to for 4 PPs. You regain +5 temporary hit points every round (this isn't all that powerful, but surely helps), and every time you use a psychic effect you recover a few hit points if you don't want to nova (7 on a Claw attack). You can cheat death using your psychic focus, and if you short rest you have it again. Say you are a gnome: you are resistant to magic. If you are a human and you want to further advance your survability, you take Resilient and have Constitution or Dexterity saving throws and +1 at level 1. Say you are an elf, you have resistance to charm and immunity to sleep and a cantrip. Say you are a mountain dwarf, and you have proficiency on axes and medium armor (and poison resistance, and such). Say you are a hill dwarf, and you have 16 extra hp.

All of them increase your prime stats, and give you some neat benefit. And even if you are a very subpar character, you still kick ass.
 
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Belltent

First Post
Fighting style and action surge. Heck action surge by itself is better than most feats even as a career the ability to take another full action on a short or long rest.

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Action surge is a 2 level dip. That delay doesn't make a huge difference in white room, level 20, theorycrafting, but in actual play pushes back whatever your main class's features are by a ton, along with ASIs.

Fighting styles aren't breaking any games. The +2 damage/.5 average damage increase/+1 AC don't hold up too long. Archery style maybe if you are a sharpshooter...but rangers and fighters are the only ones taking that feat and they get a fighting style anyways.

Soul Knife level 1 is the 2nd best dual wielder in the game for free. Only way to beat it is feat+fighting style+2 magical weapons.
 

hejtmane

Explorer
Action surge is a 2 level dip. That delay doesn't make a huge difference in white room, level 20, theorycrafting, but in actual play pushes back whatever your main class's features are by a ton, along with ASIs.

Fighting styles aren't breaking any games. The +2 damage/.5 average damage increase/+1 AC don't hold up too long. Archery style maybe if you are a sharpshooter...but rangers and fighters are the only ones taking that feat and they get a fighting style anyways.

Soul Knife level 1 is the 2nd best dual wielder in the game for free. Only way to beat it is feat+fighting style+2 magical weapons.
My fault forgot action surge was 2nd level and healing was first level duh stupid brain

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