Marvel's "Iron Fist" (Now With Spoilers)

Morrus · Mar 29, 2017

doctorbadwolf said:
I absolutely despised this punisher plot. He is even more of a caricature than normal, and the whole story is just...Miller levels of untra-violent fan wank.

The courtroom drama was excellent, though, as was the development of the three ninja characters. IMO, it could lose Punisher completely and be a substantially better season.

It's funny how people can have so diametrically opposite opinions about something. Almost like art was subjective!

doctorbadwolf · Mar 29, 2017

Ryujin said:
In Daredevil they did a very good job of showing Matt to be his father the boxer's son, layering in in over the martial arts training.

Agreed. It's one of the many great things about the show. DD, JJ, and LC are all excellent for the same reason, first and formost, and that is the characterisations.

Mallus · Mar 29, 2017

Ryujin said:
As far as Danny Rand's demeanour and dialogue I just had to remember that he had stopped his Western cultural development at pre-teen, and that got me over the expectation of hearing Shakespeare soliloquies out of him.

I think what sold me on this version of Danny was him referring to terrifying uber-laywer Jerry Hogarth as "J-Money", because, really, he's still 10.

That made it much more enjoyable as simple consumable entertainment.

It's definitely not ambitious like Jessica Jones, or Legion on FX (which is also a work of art).

Tonguez · Mar 29, 2017

Ryujin said:
As far as Danny Rand's demeanour and dialogue I just had to remember that he had stopped his Western cultural development at pre-teen, and that got me over the expectation of hearing Shakespeare soliloquies out of him. That made it much more enjoyable as simple consumable entertainment.

I was expecting a whole lot of mystical Zen Koans out of him though. I was very disappointed that they didn't have him have a 'blind Master Po' flashback in every episode

billd91 · Mar 29, 2017

Tonguez said:
I was expecting a whole lot of mystical Zen Koans out of him though. I was very disappointed that they didn't have him have a 'blind Master Po' flashback in every episode

See, I was glad they didn't do that. It's been done.

Hussar · Mar 30, 2017

One thing that surprised me was that Netflix gave this an Adult rating. (at least here in Japan, maybe it's different in different countries?) I watched the first couple of episodes and realized that I could watch this with my daughters, unlike DD or JJ, which are a bit too ... mature and graphic. Outside of a couple of scenes, this wasn't much more than PG no?

I guess, for me, IF suffers mostly by comparison. DD and JJ had very deep stories and really delved deep into some very dark themes. DD is often about the justification for vigilantism. Plus, DD gets his ass handed to him numerous times. You really get the feeling that he's a real person. JJ was all about rape and victimization. Just fantastic writing on a very difficult topic. Luke Cage dealt with community and all sorts of pretty topical issues.

I honestly really have no idea what Iron Fist was about. Umm, first world problems of a rich, white manboy? I had thought they were going to go a bit deeper into the ideas of family violence and abuse, but, they only really kind of danced around it. Even the substance abuse plot line was just kind of tacked on. Ward has a substance abuse problem, goes to a hospital for a couple of days, and his problem is fixed. :/

I just found the whole thing a bit too facile after the depth of the other Netflix Marvel outings.

Derren · Mar 30, 2017

Mallus said:
because, really, he's still 10.

No, he isn't. His plane crashed when he was 10. Then he spend the next 16 years, the better part of his life, being gruesomely drilled in martial arts. He might have no clue about how the world works (but when you can get a fake passport in Morocco to get into the US you can't be that naive) but he is not 10. Time doesn't stop in Kun-Lun.

I found Danny to be very annoying. His naive phase was plausible (but as I said, fake passport in Morocco), but his angry child character did not match his supposed training at all. I find him to be the weakest character of the defenders (both in term of characterization and actual power). If it weren't for the Meachums the series would have been extremely boring.
While normally the villains are the weak points in marvel series they saved it here.

Mallus · Mar 30, 2017

Derren said:
No, he isn't. His plane crashed when he was 10. Then he spend the next 16 years, the better part of his life, being gruesomely drilled in martial arts. He might have no clue about how the world works (but when you can get a fake passport in Morocco to get into the US you can't be that naive) but he is not 10. Time doesn't stop in Kun-Lun.

You realize I didn't mean Danny was literally, chronologically still 10 years old, right?

I meant Danny was in certain respects, psychologically & socially still 10 years old, as evidenced hy his use of the nickname "J-Money", though this appearance of immaturity is likely due, at least in part, to the massive dislocating effects of moving from world of Kun-Lun and the world of contemporary Manhattan.

edit: agree on the Meachums, tho. They're my favorite part of the series so far.

Derren · Mar 30, 2017

Mallus said:
You realize I didn't mean Danny was literally, chronologically still 10 years old, right?

Yes, but also psychologically he is not, or should not, be 10 years old either.

Tonguez · Mar 30, 2017

Mallus said:
You realize I didn't mean Danny was literally, chronologically still 10 years old, right?

I meant Danny was in certain respects, psychologically & socially still 10 years old, as evidenced hy his use of the nickname "J-Money", though this appearance of immaturity is likely due, at least in part, to the massive dislocating effects of moving from world of Kun-Lun and the world of contemporary Manhattan.

edit: agree on the Meachums, tho. They're my favorite part of the series so far.

yeah that J-Money thing made no sense to me. If he was raised in an austere monastary why would he using stupid nicknames for a lawyer he's just met? and why would his social skills remain that of a 10 year old when he's spent the past 15 years socialising with people in KunLun- does he have some kind of disassociative disorder?

Danny's personality wasn't well thought out in this show, the calm, focussed portrayal in the Spiderman cartoon made sense to me but this petulant, self-serving Netflix version just seems a bit too all over the place and that is annoying. I'm not really seeing how he fits with the other 3 Defenders or why any of them would want to work with him (well except that he has money)