D&D 5E Thoughts on moding Saving Throw Proficiency access.

Yardiff · Mar 27, 2017

Mod 1) Class have a choice of Saving Throw Proficiencies, pick 2 from; Fighter has Str, Dex, Con, and Int. Cleric has Con, Int, Wis, Cha. etc...

Mod 2) All classes have a choice of Saving Throw Proficiencies, Pick 2.

Mod3 can be used with vanilla or any of the other mods) First time you Multi-class you can pick a saving from the new class to add to your Saving Throws from your original class. Any further Multi-classing does not grant a Saving Throw Proficiency.

The Crimson Binome · Mar 27, 2017

The three major saves are Dex, Con, and Wisdom. The three minor saves are Strength, Intelligence, and Charisma. Every class in the book has one minor save and one major save.

If you gave anyone the option of picking two saves, they would pick two major saves, because they are far more common.

Horwath · Mar 27, 2017

Saelorn said:
The three major saves are Dex, Con, and Wisdom. The three minor saves are Strength, Intelligence, and Charisma. Every class in the book has one minor save and one major save.

If you gave anyone the option of picking two saves, they would pick two major saves, because they are far more common.

Well there is major saves, minor saves and intelligence saves in 5E?

How many Int save spells are there? 2 or 3?

IMHO they should have stick with 3 saves. But for each save there are two abilities tied.

FORT:str+con,

REF:dex+int,

WILL:wis+cha,

that would still make every ability valid and it is easier to balance out 3 saves vs. 6 saves.

And on point buy it would favor spreading out abilities and not going for min-max.

Li Shenron · Mar 27, 2017

Yardiff said:
Mod 1) Class have a choice of Saving Throw Proficiencies, pick 2 from; Fighter has Str, Dex, Con, and Int. Cleric has Con, Int, Wis, Cha. etc...

Mod 2) All classes have a choice of Saving Throw Proficiencies, Pick 2.

Mod3 can be used with vanilla or any of the other mods) First time you Multi-class you can pick a saving from the new class to add to your Saving Throws from your original class. Any further Multi-classing does not grant a Saving Throw Proficiency.

I think a better mod which doesn't create any inbalance would be this:

All classes have a choice of Saving Throw Proficiencies: pick one from Dex, Con or Wis, and another from Str, Int or Cha.

So each class always has a "major" and a "minor" ST proficiency, which is what they already have now, but with more freedom in picking exactly which ones. I think this would have zero change on balance.

The Crimson Binome · Mar 27, 2017

Li Shenron said:
So each class always has a "major" and a "minor" ST proficiency, which is what they already have now, but with more freedom in picking exactly which ones. I think this would have zero change on balance.

It would have a much smaller effect on balance, but it would definitely change things. I feel like being able to align your saves with your good scores is significantly more effective than leaving them unaligned, but I haven't run the numbers on that.

If nothing else, it would allow spellcasters to sacrifice Dex or Wisdom in favor of Con, which would prove valuable for concentration.

Li Shenron · Mar 27, 2017

Saelorn said:
It would have a much smaller effect on balance, but it would definitely change things. I feel like being able to align your saves with your good scores is significantly more effective than leaving them unaligned, but I haven't run the numbers on that.

If nothing else, it would allow spellcasters to sacrifice Dex or Wisdom in favor of Con, which would prove valuable for concentration.

Depends what you mean by balance. Theoretically if you change anything at all, you affect balance.

A house rules like this allows a little bit more freedom which might be exploited for min-maxing, but it allows everyone to do so, and thus everyone is on equal foot. And there is no universal answer to whether it's better to concentrate on a few high points or flatten things out, since both of them can work well or poorlyin different campaigns.

UngeheuerLich · Mar 27, 2017

I would maybe allow to replace a saving throw proficiency whenever you multiclass. But only minor vs minor, major vs major.

DEFCON 1 · Mar 27, 2017

I ended up just giving my players the option of helping their saving throws by upping the power of the Resilient feat. In my current game it reads as follows:

RESILIENT
- You gain proficiency in one major saving throw (Dex, Con, Wis) plus one minor saving throw (Str, Int, Cha) of your choice.
- You gain Expertise in any one saving throw you have proficiency in.

So by spending one of their feat slots they end up with four saving throws they now are proficient in, and one of them they are REALLY resilient against. Now I'd like to tell you "Yeah, it's been working great, no balance issues at all!" with the feat's introduction... but the truth is none of my players having taken it yet. Heh. I'm expecting it to ultimately be fine, but have no evidence to support that contention at the moment.

Blue · Mar 27, 2017

Li Shenron said:
I think a better mod which doesn't create any inbalance would be this:

All classes have a choice of Saving Throw Proficiencies: pick one from Dex, Con or Wis, and another from Str, Int or Cha.

So each class always has a "major" and a "minor" ST proficiency, which is what they already have now, but with more freedom in picking exactly which ones. I think this would have zero change on balance.

I have to disagree about "doesn't create imbalance". For example, spellcasters get a lot more boost out of Con then non-casters because of Concentration saves, and that's one of the benefits given only to sorcerers. Other casters need to either start in another class or take a feat to get it, and taking a feat is common because of how much better.

Also the nature of the major saves differ. Dex saves are mostly about HPs. So a high HP character (or even more someone like a bear totem barbarian with resistance as well as high HPs) find that of a lot less utility.

Wisdom is more about control, and Con is about transformed or physically affected.

These aren't being judged in a void, different classes have different strengths and weaknesses in terms of the types of things each save will do to you. Sure, many effects will hurt people equally, but that doesn't invalidate that there are many that aren't equal to all.

D&D 5E Thoughts on moding Saving Throw Proficiency access.

Yardiff

Adventurer

The Crimson Binome

Hero

Horwath

Legend

Li Shenron

Legend

The Crimson Binome

Hero

Li Shenron

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UngeheuerLich

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DEFCON 1

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Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

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