Compiled 3.5 Revisions

proditor · Jul 3, 2003

You're missing my point.

+5 bow with Speed (+4), Distance (+1)
50 arrows: +1 with Bane (+1), Holy( +2), Flaming Burst (+2), Lawful (+2), Shocking Burst (+2)

Now the fighter has +14 in "buffs", and a net +5 (Bow being bigger and all) on to hit and damage.

The AA can only do +9, since they cannot use magic arrows with their enhance ability, and the bow has to be +1 to accept any other enchantments.

Like I said, pricey, but a net 5 point loss in buffs to the AA, the "Master" of combining these two things.....

Jesster · Jul 3, 2003

proditor said:
50 arrows: +1 with Bane (+1), Holy( +2), Flaming Burst (+2), Lawful (+2), Shocking Burst (+2)

I'd say anyone shelling out for +10 equivalent ammunition needs to be smacked. There's a lot of better PERMANENT items you can buy with that much cash.

Gatchaba Goose

proditor · Jul 3, 2003

Oh, I'm not arguing that anyone with that much money to blow on temp items is insane and in a game where the treasure is awarded by picking what's behind curtain number 2.

But.

I think that when a PRC is supposed to focus you down one path and then leaves you potentially lesss capable in that path than a core class, well something is wrong.

Pielorinho · Jul 3, 2003

proditor said:
You're missing my point.

+5 bow with Speed (+4), Distance (+1)
50 arrows: +1 with Bane (+1), Holy( +2), Flaming Burst (+2), Lawful (+2), Shocking Burst (+2)

Like I said, pricey, but a net 5 point loss in buffs to the AA, the "Master" of combining these two things.....

How much is the fighter paying vs. what the AA is paying? Give me a price rundown, and I'll tell you what the AA is buying instead of those crazy arrows in order to outshine the fighter at archery.

Daniel

Jesster · Jul 3, 2003

proditor said:
Oh, I'm not arguing that anyone with that much money to blow on temp items is insane and in a game where the treasure is awarded by picking what's behind curtain number 2.

But.

I think that when a PRC is supposed to focus you down one path and then leaves you potentially lesss capable in that path than a core class, well something is wrong.

Well there's nothing stopping an AA from buying the same uber-arrows as the straight fighter. He just won't be able to use his Enchant Arrow ability on them. The difference is, that when the AA decides to stop throwing his money away, and saves his uber-arrows for a special occasion, he can still get his +5 enhancement bonus firing normal arrows from a bow with +9 worth of non-enhancement bonuses.

Christian · Jul 3, 2003

proditor said:
You're missing my point.

+5 bow with Speed (+4), Distance (+1)
50 arrows: +1 with Bane (+1), Holy( +2), Flaming Burst (+2), Lawful (+2), Shocking Burst (+2)

Now the fighter has +14 in "buffs", and a net +5 (Bow being bigger and all) on to hit and damage.

The AA can only do +9, since they cannot use magic arrows with their enhance ability, and the bow has to be +1 to accept any other enchantments.

Like I said, pricey, but a net 5 point loss in buffs to the AA, the "Master" of combining these two things.....

I think you're missing their point. The AA can buy those same 50 arrows, and the total attack will be the same as for the fighter. (The AA's enhance arrow ability won't apply, but they can stilll use those arrows!) And when the AA and the fighter have both run out of arrows, the AA will still have an unlimited supply of 'regular' magic arrows to use. More likely, the AA will not bother spending money on consumables like arrows and rely on her enhance arrow ability, using the money saved on more permanent magical enhancements (on the bow, on gloves of dexterity, manuals of quickness of action, etc.). For the fighter to stay ahead or even keep abreast of the AA, he will have to continually sink money into the bottomless magic arrow pit. After 50-100 arrow shots, the 200,350 gp the fighter sank into his 50 +1 holy lawful shocking burst flaming burst bane arrows is gone; and the AA who spent instead 137,500 on a +5 manual of quickness of action and 36,000 on +6 gloves of dexterity is still shooting magic arrows, and has +5 or +6 extra ranged attack bonus from her increased Dex and 26,500 extra gp left over. Who's the better archer again?

And frankly, money isn't unlimited, even at very high levels. Even a dedicated archer character will put his money towards weapon enhancments on his bow rather than on expendable arrows, especially in 3.5 where normal arrows can penetrate DR when fired from a magic bow. The difference in equipment between a fighter/archer and an arcane archer at a given level will invariably be that the AA has more non-plus enhancements on her bow, making up for the difference with her enhanced arrows.

SpeedDemonic · Jul 3, 2003

Small weapon sizes mean...which club?

I don't want to whine too much, but multi-size weapons?? That's probably the worst continuation of a 3.0 idea, just...just...ew.
Why must we make room for more game homework when the old "X size weapon for X size creature" rules were so versatile and cinematic and...well realistic , even,
I mean, will someone please explain to me the physical difference between a Human's "Medium" Two-Handed Greatclub and
an Ogre's "Large" One Handed Club?
It's just. A Big. Frickin. Peace-a-wood.

And how do I manage to explain to an 8th level Halfling that nahh. Ya never can use a knight's magical longsword. I mean, you're the best warrior in the party, but you're just not medium enough.

Just when you thought it was safe to go back to playing a gnome...
nerfnerfnerfnerfnerfnerfnerfnerf!

Lab Monkey · Jul 3, 2003

In 3.5, GMW still pretty much out does the Arcane Archer enchant arrows ability.

GMW gives you +1/4 levels now. The earliest you can become an AA is 8th level. Here's a run down:

Char. Level_____GMW_____AA
8th___________+2_______+1
10th__________+2_______+2
12th__________+3_______+3
14th__________+3_______+4
16th__________+4_______+5
18th__________+4_______+5
20th__________+5_______+5

So the AA doesn't even match this single spell until 10th level, doesn't exceed it until 14th and never climbs above a mere +1 enhancement bonus over this one spell. When you consider that the AA had to give up 1pt of BAB in order to meet the prereqs for the PrC, this only amounts to a 1 pt damage bonus. Plus you've delayed getting that next iterative attack, further reducing your damage dealing potential.

When you consider that the other AA abilities are only useable 1/day and the ridiculously low DC of the arrow of slaying, AA has almost nothing to offer. As long as you have a cleric or wizard buddy willing to cast this spell (which there almost certainly should be), the AA is an extremely poor choice. Other PrCs or even just single class 3.5 ranger are much better options.

If the campaign goes epic, the AA begins to look much better. For standard adventuring campaigns, AA stinks.

Tarril Wolfeye · Jul 3, 2003

Could the Hijacking of this thread please end?

We should not discuss the Arcana Archer here.

This thread is for scoops and information about 3.5.

If you want to discuss the ramifications of the new rules, start a new thread.

Thanks

James McMurray · Jul 3, 2003

proditor said:
You're missing my point.

+5 bow with Speed (+4), Distance (+1)
50 arrows: +1 with Bane (+1), Holy( +2), Flaming Burst (+2), Lawful (+2), Shocking Burst (+2)

Now the fighter has +14 in "buffs", and a net +5 (Bow being bigger and all) on to hit and damage.

The AA can only do +9, since they cannot use magic arrows with their enhance ability, and the bow has to be +1 to accept any other enchantments.

Like I said, pricey, but a net 5 point loss in buffs to the AA, the "Master" of combining these two things.....

Of course, since the AA doesn't have to get +5 for his bow, he can get a +1 bow of Speed, Distance, Holy, and Lawful . All he loses in this case is +4 worth of enhancements, not +4. And given that he is saving 200,000 and some change gold per 50 arrows, I think its a fair trade.