D&D 5E homebrew Cleric Changes discussion

I started thinking on some Cleric changes to apply to my world, ways to make them more interesting as a class. I am leaning heavily towards more Warlock-like changes, since I think Warlock and Cleric are two sides of the same coin.

To that end, here are some of my changes

Going to happen: Changes that I am decided on, mostly pretty obvious things that come with the Warlock Chassis

• Short-rest spell slots, same progression as Warlock, including Mystic Arcanum
• Divine Gifts: Invocations for the Cleric. One of the topics to be discussed.

[MENTION=6788732]cbwjm[/MENTION] has been helping out on this, and even put it in a handy link.
http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/B1WZWvYTAx

I have been staring at an open word document for the past half-hour or so, and cannot think of a single thing to do with these Gifts. I think I am thinking about it too hard, so instead I am just going to wing it here, and write down ideas as they come up. If you think something is too strong/too weak, feel free to help out on it. Maybe recommend a level requirement, or a way to make it worth the Gift Slot. Progression will be the same as Warlock, so if you wouldn't take it as a Warlock, it will be the same cost on this.

Greater Command
Prerequisite; Knowledge Domain, Command
If the target of your command spell fails its saving throw, you can also utter a second command that it must follow as its reaction immediately.

Aura of Life
Prerequisite; Life Domain, 5th level
Allies within 5 feet of you regenerate health equal to half of your Wisdom modifier, as long as you are conscious.

Burning Brilliance
Prerequisite; Light Domain, 5th level
Your light spells deal damage to creatures now. A creature within 5 feet of a source of light created by you, or within an area of effect such as Faerie Fire, takes 1d8 damage for each level of the spell slot spent. In addition, your Light Cantrip (Which does not deal damage), gives disadvantage to a creatures attacks and Dexterity saves, until the start of your next turn, when you cast it within 30 feet of them. A creature affected by Light in this way cannot be affected again for 10 minutes.

Gift of Yggdrasil
Prerequisite; Nature Domain
You can cast Barkskin without using a spell slot.

Eye of the Hurricane
Prerequisite; Tempest Domain
When you cast Fogcloud, you are able to choose a number of creatures equal to your wisdom modifier, within 30 feet of you, to be immune to its effect, allowing them to see clearly.

Charming demeanor
Prerequisite; Trickery Domain
When you use the Charm person spell, as long as you did not have the target do anything specifically bad for it (Loan you a small amount of gold, go for a walk instead of standing guard, etc.) It will not know that it was charmed.

Trained in War
Prerequisite; War Domain
You may choose a fighting style from the list available to the Paladin

Sword of the Gods
You can choose a single Sacred Weapon Form, representative of your god. As an action, you can summon this weapon to use in battle. It counts as magical for the purposes of overcoming Resistance and immunity to non-magical attacks. It also counts as a holy symbol for the purposes of Spell-casting. You can also talk with your DM about having the weapon deal a Damage type that fits your god, such as Thor giving Lightning damage, to add more personal flavor to your cleric.

Divine Force
Prerequisite; Arcana Domain (SCAG)
When you cast Magic missile, you can choose for it to deal Radiant Damage instead of Force.

Arcana Divine
Prerequisite; Arcana Domain, 3rd Level
You can add 1 wizard spell of your choice to your Cleric Spell list, outside of the ones added by this domain. You can change this spell when you gain a Cleric level. This spell can then be included in your prepared spells but, unlike the Domain Spells, does count against your number of Spells prepared. The spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

Greater Knowledge of the Ancients
Prerequisite; Knowledge Domain, 5th level
When you choose a skill or tool for your Knowledge of the Ancients Channel Divinity, you gain Expertise in that skill or tool, instead of proficiency.

That is all I have for now, I might get more out soon. If you have your own ideas, feel free to offer them up. I particularly need some for base clerics without prerequisites, keeping in mind how they might interact with these ones.
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New day
New Additions

Flurry of Blades
Prerequisite; Martial Weapon Proficiency, 5th level
When you take the attack action, you can make a second attack.

Through the Eyes of the Gods
Once per long rest you can gain True Sight for 1 minute, out to 20 feet.

Tempered Shield
Prerequisite; Forge Domain (UA)
When you cast shield, you also add your Wisdom Modifier to your AC.

Greater Bane
Prerequisite; Grave Domain (UA)
When an enemy affected by your Bane spell attempts an attack or skill check, the die rolled is 1d6 instead of 1d4.
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Some Warlock ones that work just as well for Cleric. After all, it would be kind of silly if a Nature god couldn't give free Speak with Animals.

Beast Speech
Prerequisite; Nature Domain
You can cast Speak with Animals without expending a spell slot.

Arcane Sight
Prerequisite; Arcana Domain
You can cast detect magic without expending a spell slot.

Mask of Many Faces
Prerequisite; Trickery Domain
You can cast Disguise Self without expending a spell slot.

May want to look here, has a decent list of cleric-themed invocations to use.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?481481-The-Hierophant-a-cleric-warlock-variant

TwoSix said:

May want to look here, has a decent list of cleric-themed invocations to use.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?481481-The-Hierophant-a-cleric-warlock-variant

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Thanks, it's nice to know the work of swapping cleric over to Warlock style has been done before, though I will still be doing this one to get it the way I prefer. Quite a few nice invocations as well, though I plan on having a much larger spread. I will probably have a lot of Domain locked ones, each tied to making a Domain spell more versatile or stronger.

An alternative and perhaps slightly simpler solution, why not just take the warlock class as is and give them the following options:

1) Pick either Wisdom or Charisma as their spellcasting stat
2) Let them pick to use either the warlock or cleric list. By this I mean a one time choice at level one, not cherry pick spells from both lists. For the sake of class balance you make wish to have Eldritch blast be a cantrip option either way to not make a bunch of invocations obsolete.
3) Add "cleric" themed invocations (i.e. one use of channel = 1 invocation, potentially some domain abilities could work here too, or medium armor proficiency and martial weapons as many domains grant them)
4) Make their patron their deity, and convert some of the preexisting domains over to warlock abilities given at the relative levels they would get stuff. Channel /1 short rest should probably be baseline and any existing warlock ability from patrons that us 1/short rest should be changed to use this channel resource for balance.

It would mean functionally you can make a "cleric" who has less spells known than the base cleric, but gets to cast like a warlock, and has some nifty passive abilities. Invocations could be used for stuff like additional channel uses or destroy undead, or turn the unholy, and if someone wanted to play the base cleric there would Still be ample reason two for the more spells prepared and versitility of knowing the entire list. The traditional warlock wouldn't be overshadowed either as they could take advantage of more invocation options or more patrons to pick from, and they warlock list is frankly better for offensive purposes. Speaking of donains, the domain spells would likely just be added to the class list, the same way warlock patrons add them.

I'd tweak the warlock framework to fit what you want, rather than completely regutting cleric from scratch.

MostlyHarmless42 said:

An alternative and perhaps slightly simpler solution, why not just take the warlock class as is and give them the following options:

1) Pick either Wisdom or Charisma as their spellcasting stat
2) Let them pick to use either the warlock or cleric list. By this I mean a one time choice at level one, not cherry pick spells from both lists. For the sake of class balance you make wish to have Eldritch blast be a cantrip option either way to not make a bunch of invocations obsolete.
3) Add "cleric" themed invocations (i.e. one use of channel = 1 invocation, potentially some domain abilities could work here too, or medium armor proficiency and martial weapons as many domains grant them)
4) Make their patron their deity, and convert some of the preexisting domains over to warlock abilities given at the relative levels they would get stuff. Channel /1 short rest should probably be baseline and any existing warlock ability from patrons that us 1/short rest should be changed to use this channel resource for balance.

It would mean functionally you can make a "cleric" who has less spells known than the base cleric, but gets to cast like a warlock, and has some nifty passive abilities. Invocations could be used for stuff like additional channel uses or destroy undead, or turn the unholy, and if someone wanted to play the base cleric there would Still be ample reason two for the more spells prepared and versitility of knowing the entire list. The traditional warlock wouldn't be overshadowed either as they could take advantage of more invocation options or more patrons to pick from, and they warlock list is frankly better for offensive purposes. Speaking of donains, the domain spells would likely just be added to the class list, the same way warlock patrons add them.

I'd tweak the warlock framework to fit what you want, rather than completely regutting cleric from scratch.

Click to expand...

I am trying to work out a happy middle ground between Cleric and Warlock. I am mostly reskinning warlock, but also adjusting some things to better fit Cleric. For instance, the prepared spells looks like a somewhat important part of the cleric, so cutting them down to a limit on spells known may affect the class in ways I cannot account for. I like a lot of the Heirophant that Twosix linked above, but actually don't like how it is so similar to the warlock. If it makes any sense, I am still looking to keep them as two sides of the same coin, not make them both the Heads side of a quarter, and only have a different back.

I have mostly settled on what I have above. No extra layer of customization, since they can do that through their spell list much easier than a warlock, though I will have a couple of invocations that strike a similar note. For example, I can have one restricted to War Domain Clerics that allows them to summon a Flail that deals 1d8 Radiant+1d8 Fire damage on an attack, but does not allow them to just summon any weapon they feel like. Another big note is that their "Mystic Arcanum" Will be just like a normal spell slot for them, so they will be more flexible at high level as well.

Still working on a list of Gifts I have thought of, but that will be the meat of the customization, as it is with the Warlock (IMO).

Have you thought of any domain related invocations yet? I'm interested in seeing them. Actually, I'm just interested in seeing the results of this class homebrew.

cbwjm said:

Have you thought of any domain related invocations yet? I'm interested in seeing them. Actually, I'm just interested in seeing the results of this class homebrew.

Click to expand...

I have mentioned a couple in a sideways kind of way, as examples for the sort of thing I am aiming for. I do have a few rough (Emphasis there, very rough) ideas though.

Greater Command
Prerequisite; Knowledge Domain, Command
If the target of your command spell fails its saving throw, you can also utter a second command that it must follow as its reaction immediately.

Aura of Life
Prerequisite; Life Domain, 5th level
Allies within 5 feet of you regenerate health equal to half of your Wisdom modifier, as long as you are conscious.

Burning Brilliance
Prerequisite; Light Domain, 5th level
Your light spells deal damage to creatures now. A creature within 5 feet of a source of light created by you, or within an area of effect such as Faerie Fire, takes 1d8 damage for each level of the spell slot spent. In addition, your Light Cantrip (Which does not deal damage), gives disadvantage to a creatures attacks and Dexterity saves the first time you cast it. A creature affected by light in this way cannot be affected again for 10 minutes.

Gift of Yggdrasil
Prerequisite; Nature Domain
You can cast Barkskin without using a spell slot.

Eye of the Hurricane
Prerequisite; Tempest Domain
When you cast Fogcloud, you are able to choose a number of creatures equal to your wisdom modifier, within 30 feet of you, to be immune to its effect, allowing them to see clearly.

Charming demeanor
Prerequisite; Trickery Domain
When you use the Charm person spell, as long as you did not have the target do anything specifically bad for it (Loan you a small amount of gold, go for a walk instead of standing guard, etc.) It will not know that it was charmed.

Trained in War
Prerequisite; War Domain
You may choose a fighting style from the list available to the Paladin

Do you think these are interesting? Too powerful, not strong enough?

Alright, I edited the post for Gifts, with the ones I put above as well as some new ones I thought up. Throwing things at the wall, seeing what sticks.

Lanliss said:

I have mentioned a couple in a sideways kind of way, as examples for the sort of thing I am aiming for. I do have a few rough (Emphasis there, very rough) ideas though.

Greater Command
Prerequisite; Knowledge Domain, Command
If the target of your command spell fails its saving throw, you can also utter a second command that it must follow as its reaction immediately.

Aura of Life
Prerequisite; Life Domain, 5th level
Allies within 5 feet of you regenerate health equal to half of your Wisdom modifier, as long as you are conscious.

Burning Brilliance
Prerequisite; Light Domain, 5th level
Your light spells deal damage to creatures now. A creature within 5 feet of a source of light created by you, or within an area of effect such as Faerie Fire, takes 1d8 damage for each level of the spell slot spent. In addition, your Light Cantrip (Which does not deal damage), gives disadvantage to a creatures attacks and Dexterity saves the first time you cast it. A creature affected by light in this way cannot be affected again for 10 minutes.

Gift of Yggdrasil
Prerequisite; Nature Domain
You can cast Barkskin without using a spell slot.

Eye of the Hurricane
Prerequisite; Tempest Domain
When you cast Fogcloud, you are able to choose a number of creatures equal to your wisdom modifier, within 30 feet of you, to be immune to its effect, allowing them to see clearly.

Charming demeanor
Prerequisite; Trickery Domain
When you use the Charm person spell, as long as you did not have the target do anything specifically bad for it (Loan you a small amount of gold, go for a walk instead of standing guard, etc.) It will not know that it was charmed.

Trained in War
Prerequisite; War Domain
You may choose a fighting style from the list available to the Paladin

Do you think these are interesting? Too powerful, not strong enough?

Click to expand...

Sorry, I remember reading these in the email but then I forgot to respond when I got home.

I think these are quite interesting, I'm away from my PHB at the moment but I assume that the invocations affecting specific spells are based on the domain spells.

I'm not 100% sure about burning brilliance, it might be too powerful but then there are other spells which do the same so maybe not. At the very least I would consider a change in wording to allow the light priest to choose to make their light spells damaging so that they don't summon up a light source and burn their allies.

Trained in War fits the war domain perfectly. Are clerics going to have access to something like the warlock's 3rd level pact boons? If not, then perhaps another war invocation could be the one which allows them to gain Extra Attack.

The aura of life invocation might remove the need to spend hit dice during short rests since everyone can huddle around the life cleric. It definitely fits the domain though.