Trade offer: Rod of lordly might for belt of giant strength

kalani · Apr 20, 2017

Hi guys. Just finishe SKT and scored a rod of lordly might from the final encounter. It's the legendary Swiss Army knife of magic weapons but alas is only marginally useful to my barbarian/Druid. As such I am wanting to trade it for a legendary belt of giant strength (any kind) as that item is still useful in wildshape. F interested, please reply below.

Caliban · Apr 20, 2017

You can only trade it for an item of the same rarity - so another Legendary item. As far as I know, the two Legendary Giant Strength belts haven't been given out yet, although I suppose someone could have gotten one from the same encounter you got the Rod of Lordly Might.

kalani · Apr 20, 2017

Yeah you can drop them in the same encounter as there are rolls on table h and table I. I am also willing to trade 2 items if getting a different legendary and a very rare belt. Will need to look over my collective VRare items in that case though as I'm not sure what I have.

RulesJD · Apr 20, 2017

kalani said:
Hi guys. Just finishe SKT and scored a rod of lordly might from the final encounter. It's the legendary Swiss Army knife of magic weapons but alas is only marginally useful to my barbarian/Druid. As such I am wanting to trade it for a legendary belt of giant strength (any kind) as that item is still useful in wildshape*. F interested, please reply below.

* DM Discretion. I've yet to meet a DM that would permit a belt to be used while in Wildshape form, even the elementals.

kalani · Apr 20, 2017

Unlike polymorph, druids have the option which magic items merge with their body, and which ones are still worn (assuming their body shape could conceivably wear an item of that type).

Worn items resize to fit the wielder (as stated in the DMG)- a belt is just a loop of leather with a clasp (as a rule, although fancier belts might be made of metal or have decorative attachments). Assuming size is correct, you can fit a belt around a dog's waist just as easily you can a humans. It won't serve much practical purpose for a dog (magic not withstanding), but there is nothing stopping them from wearing one. Yes, worn items don't reshape to fit the wielder, so armor/boots/gloves are problematic for non-humanoid forms, but something like a belt, ring, cloak, necklace or even bracers (which are just metal/leather cylinders for the most part) should work on most wildshape forms.

EDIT:There was a typographical error in the following sentence. I have since corrected this, and slightly reworded the sentence for clarity.

Take a Giant Elk for example - Bracers of armor (on its forelimbs) or a giant strength belt (worn about the waist) should still work; athough they would scale in size to fit. With that being said, a giant elk doesn't have anything similar to "fingers" so wouldn't be able to wear rings (as magic items don't relocate to different locations when wildshaping).

Meanwhile a giant snake would only be able to wear something like a belt, as even cloaks/necklaces would have no physical equivalent of "shoulders" to support them, while a belt can be simply tightened around any cylindrical body part (including a snakes midsection). A whale on the other hand would have trouble with bracers as their forelimbs are flattened instead of round.

CapnZapp · Apr 22, 2017

I believe 5e does not contain any rules either way. This means one DM will allow all items for Moon Druids, a second will allow none.

And a third DM will entertain just the kind of complex anatomy-based approach that seems to be an assumption here.

But I would not make any such assumptions since this approach is certainly not something you can point to the rulebook for.

As the AL saying goes... Expect table variation

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

RulesJD · Apr 24, 2017

kalani said:
Unlike polymorph, druids have the option which magic items merge with their body, and which ones are still worn (assuming their body shape could conceivably wear an item of that type).

Worn items resize to fit the wielder (as stated in the DMG)- a belt is just a loop of leather with a clasp (as a rule, although fancier belts might be made of metal or have decorative attachments). Assuming size is correct, you can fit a belt around a dog's waist just as easily you can a humans. It won't serve much practical purpose for a dog (magic not withstanding), but there is nothing stopping them from wearing one. Yes, worn items don't reshape to fit the wielder, so armor/boots/gloves are problematic for non-humanoid forms, but something like a belt, ring, cloak, necklace or even bracers (which are just metal/leather cylinders for the most part) should work on most wildshape forms.

Take a Giant Elk for example - Bracers of armor or a giant strength belt should still work on its forelimbs; athough they would scale in size to fit. With that being said, a giant elk doesn't have anything similar to "fingers" so wouldn't be able to wear rings (as magic items don't relocate to different locations when wildshaping).

Meanwhile a giant snake would only be able to wear something like a belt, as even cloaks/necklaces would have no physical equivalent of "shoulders" to support them, while a belt can be simply tightened around any cylindrical body part (including a snakes midsection). A whale on the other hand would have trouble with bracers as their forelimbs are flattened instead of round.

Lets quote the actual rule to start with:

"You choose whether your equipment falls to the ground in your space, merges into your new form, or is worn by it. Worn equipment functions as normal, but the DM decides whether it is practical for the new form to wear a piece of equipment, based on the creature's shape and size. Your equipment doesn't change size or shape to match the new form, and any equipment that the new form can't wear must either fali to the ground or merge with it."

So for starters, unlike most other rules discussions, this one literally says DM discretion verbatim, so yes I'm right.

The general rule (magic items resize to the wearer after attunement) is overridden by the specific rule (Wildshape doesn't cause items to resize). So your Belt is going to have the exact same dimensions, and almost no wildshape form has the same dimensions in the manner of the human body (waist that is tapered outwards to hold up the belt). So no, I wouldn't let a Giant Elk use a Belt of Giant Strength. The belt on the forelimbs of an Elk (do you actually know what a Elk looks like in real life?) would simply fall to the ground as there is nothing for the belt to rest on (no "hips" per se). The only part of an Elk's body that could possibly be compared to would be their neck or hindquarters, but I still wouldn't allow either.

CapnZapp · Apr 25, 2017

RulesJD said:
snip

This is exactly the kind of anatomy-based reasoning I personally would not touch with a ten-foot pole.

My entire argument is that the DM is free to find that sort of argument a hopeless mire, and instead simply say yes or no to all items.

The discussion needs to first ask: does the rules force Dungeon Masters into making highly specific rulings based on pretty much no fact at all (who am I to know the shape of an elk's chest?!?)

And the answer is and must be: no, that would be absurd.

So, again, before getting G into a shouting-match about which Elk wears what, how about y'all first recognize that you can't ever demand the DM to be on-board with any of it?

Then I'm sure many DM's will be happy to indulge; but that's another question.

Thanks for reading /Z

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

RulesJD · Apr 25, 2017

CapnZapp said:
*snip*
EN World mobile app

Truth, which was my first point.

Rest of the post was because I grew up in 'moose country' so Elk anatomy is a kindred topic.

Caliban · Apr 25, 2017

RulesJD said:
Truth, which was my first point.

Rest of the post was because I grew up in 'moose country' so Elk anatomy is a kindred topic.

What puzzles me is how you decided that a belt around the waist of a human would somehow end up on the forelimbs in elk form. Surely the equivalent bit of anatomy would be on the hindquarters, just forward of the rear legs or at the top of the rear legs.

I could see a DME either ruling that the belt ends up below the hips on the elk, and thus falls to the ground, wrapped around their rear legs, or that it is just above the hips of the elk, which would be wearable. I just don't see how you got "forelimbs" of the elk, unless for some reason you think the belt is worn around the chest or upper torso on a human.