Valor and Swords are both good. When Valor hits 10 they can combine Holy Weapon with Crossbow Expert or Polearm Master for an extra 6d8 every single round. Swords can technically do the same thing, but then they are getting less mileage out of their fighting style options. Things get nebulous at Level 14, because that’s when Swords can add another 2d6 to their attack routine, but Valor can throw out a holy weapon attack in addition to casting a bard spell. So one is higher damage when attacking consistently, and the other is still dealing damage when they have to stop and cast spells.
D&D 5E Bladesinger vs. Valor Bard vs. Bladelock
Irda Ranger
First Post
Lately my favorite Bladelock is a Tomelock with Shillelagh and Green Flame Blade. Add a fighter dip for Medium Armor and Shields and you're golden.
Of note is Armor of Agathys for the Bladelock. In my Tomb of Annihilation game, our bladelock uses this spell (only able to cast 2 spells at 5th level, which is often Armor of Agathys and Hex or Hellish Rebuke depending on the situation) to devastating effect when fighting mobs with either multi-attack or multiple mobs. With 15 temps and inflicting 15 damage each time he's hit (until the temps are gone), he's a pretty effective martyr build.
Additionally, the effectiveness of a Valor Bard, Bladelock, or Bladesinger is highly dependent upon the party makeup. My Tomb group has a remarkable amount of synergy; they have a diviner, a bladelock and a grave cleric. The group is fond of taking those diviner portents (especially if there is a 20) and handing that to the bladelock, who then powers up with Hex+greatsword+Cha. The grave cleric then uses her channel divinity to grant a single mob vulnerability to the attack, and the bladelock goes to town.
Bladesingers are difficult to hit...I had one in another game. Especially at high levels. However, if you can hit them or use spells against them (target their weakness...usually it will be Con), then good damage will take them out.
Additionally, the effectiveness of a Valor Bard, Bladelock, or Bladesinger is highly dependent upon the party makeup. My Tomb group has a remarkable amount of synergy; they have a diviner, a bladelock and a grave cleric. The group is fond of taking those diviner portents (especially if there is a 20) and handing that to the bladelock, who then powers up with Hex+greatsword+Cha. The grave cleric then uses her channel divinity to grant a single mob vulnerability to the attack, and the bladelock goes to town.
Bladesingers are difficult to hit...I had one in another game. Especially at high levels. However, if you can hit them or use spells against them (target their weakness...usually it will be Con), then good damage will take them out.
jgsugden
Legend
I don't think we have a great gish in 5E. They all have defects. Either you have to wait to get to the mechanics that make it work, it lacks the spell slots to be able to fell like a complete spellcaster, or it runs into a poor spell selection for buffs that do not require concentration. The best I've created is a Hexblade that adds three levels of sorcerer. (Hexblade 5, Divine Soul 4, then 11 move levels of Hexblade). However, it didn't really feel like a GISH until level 8 - before then it was spell slot starved (I started it at level 5).
This one worked best because quicken spell allowed it to attack and cast buff spells on the same turn, it also was able to wield great weapons, it used Charisma for attacks and spells, and it eventually was able to cast enough spells that it was spellcasting in every combat. However, I feel like if I had not been so focused on getting something that felt like a gish, I'd likely have had more fun playing it as a pure Hexblade.
This one worked best because quicken spell allowed it to attack and cast buff spells on the same turn, it also was able to wield great weapons, it used Charisma for attacks and spells, and it eventually was able to cast enough spells that it was spellcasting in every combat. However, I feel like if I had not been so focused on getting something that felt like a gish, I'd likely have had more fun playing it as a pure Hexblade.
Istbor
Dances with Gnolls
Not sure why, but I read this title as Bladesinger vs Balor bard vs Bladelock. I got really excited. Then, not as excited but still interested.
I agree with your estimations, having played a Bladesinger a couple of times (Both mixed with fighter and as pure wizard). They are pretty strong.
Now... I am going to play around with this Balor Bard concept...
I agree with your estimations, having played a Bladesinger a couple of times (Both mixed with fighter and as pure wizard). They are pretty strong.
Now... I am going to play around with this Balor Bard concept...
BookBarbarian
Expert Long Rester
Hmm. What if are Balor Bard is an angsty teenage (or equivalent) demon rebelling against his parents though music?
"I don't care about your Blood war, dad!" :Goes upstairs and listens to rebellious mortal music:
Istbor
Dances with Gnolls
Indeed. Though rebellious music for a demon to listen to, invokes harps and pianos to me.
"If you don't get my music, then you don't get ME dad!"
BookBarbarian
Expert Long Rester
In my mind it was something equivalent to Foreigners "I want to know what Love is"
Or maybe Meatloaf's "Bat out of Hell".
Bacon Bits
Hero
Valor gets shield proficiency, which is pretty significant since medium armor alone may not improve your survivability at all. A valor bard can get to AC 19 pretty easily with only moderate Dex, so a Str Valor bard is viable. Battle magic lets you cast Green Flame Blade or any other smiting attack you've stolen from Paladins and still get a bonus attack for potentially 3d8 + Str/Dex + 2d8 + Cha + 1d8 + Str/Dex, but that's basically an endgame ability and I don't believe it should carry much weight in consideration. Valor also lets you use bows; it's not limited to melee weapons.
Sword's Blade Flourish is very good, mainly because it grants +10 walking movement and doesn't cost an action to burn a die, but it doesn't combine with any SCAG cantrips. Fighting Style is very good, too. Sword's bonus proficiencies allow the use of weapons as a spellcasting focus, if your play group actually cares about that sort of thing. Flourish Master is truly absurd, but, again, it comes at level 14 which is basically endgame. You shouldn't judge classes based on abilities at this level unless your campaigns are restricted to high level play.
Sword focuses on making your swordsmanship better. Valor focuses on making your ability to fight better in general.
Both classes can make good use of the Shillelagh cantrip, of course.
Bacon Bits
Hero
The Killers -- Mr. Brightside, Vanessa Carlton -- A Thousand Miles, Toto -- Africa, The Beatles -- Hey Jude, A ha -- Take on Me, Flock of Seagulls -- Space Age Love Song.
