D&D 5E As a DM, can I just say, Screw Paladins :)

Gwarok

Explorer
I actually love all the classes, and as DM it's up to me to forge the story to accommodate my players enjoyment of the game within the confines of the rules, and since I can do anything I want in a campaign world I don't feel like I'm handcuffed really in doing so. But that being said, screw paladins. At least when you've got Fiends and Undead on the menu as the bad guys for your adventure.

Since most of the people I game with including myself have busy lives now that we are well into adulthood, it gets tough to get us all together for a session. So, I started running a side solo campaign for my twin brother. It's a lot of fun, and solo campaigns are nice in that you don't have to worry about the needs of 4-6 people at the same time, you can build a fantastic story around just one protagonist, make them the son of a god, the last of the Jedi, whatever. A lot of creative freedom in that. He plays a pretty well rounded bladelock with a strong mix of combat and non combat utility, charms, CHA based skills, stealth, give me ample opportunity make adventures happen.

But then his roommate wanted to play. Roommate is also an old friend, but never played DND, and I said sure because we all like bringing folks into the fold. He rolls his very first DND character, a paladin, and the gods of beginners luck on 4D6 dropping the lowest saw fit to give his first character some insane stats. With racial and level advancement(12th at the time to match my brothers Warlock), he ended up having a 20 in STR, CHA, AND CON. He's basically Dwayne Johnson. No problem, crazy high stats affect a lot, but I'm DM, I can always adjust for that to keep things interesting.

Of course, being the Dresden Files fanboi that I am, the current story arc was around a group of vampires in the city taking things over, with an evil mad scientist(Warlock of Old Ones) who makes dead things come to life, sort of a Victor Frankenstein, meaning lots of ghouls and such. Basically undead. Turns out without their charm ability, facing a guy who has radiant damage on his weapon all the time, who can do tons of bonus smite damage, who can also use Protection from Evil, vampires are pretty damn useless in a straight fight. Adding his saving throws to my brother's warlock is crazy huge too. We worked around it, all had fun and still are.

But I did throw in a section on one adventure where they end goal was guarded by a Death Knight. I figured they wouldn't do a straight up fight on it as they had a method to bypass it as a guarding and just wrap up the adventure, so even though they had just been through one deadly fight, they hatted up and decided to take out the death knight. They were 13 at the time, and I even let the death knight buff itself a bit before. Paladin opens up the fight with not one, but two crits with his flaming warhammer. Standard hit for him is 2D8 + 2D6(flaming) + bonuses. So (4D8 + 4d6 + Bonuses) x 2. Dropped it to half HP in the first round, sigh. They killed it. They got a bit lucky, but even without the crits they probably had it in the bag with the paladin there. In fact, he didn't even use his Divine Smite yet. Had he used his 4th level slots on those crits he might have just dropped it outright.

So yea, Paladins make having undead and fiends as your bad guys a lot tougher. So, this is not a claim to nerf any class, or a legit complaint about game balancing, I'm just saying. DM venting a little steam.
 

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Satyrn

First Post
Aye, you definitely can say screw paladins and you can readily do so without issue.

Well, unless you've got a player who wants to play one, is itching to do so even after you've explained why you've ruled them not available. Then you've got an issue.

It might be readily solved by houseruling changes to the couple class features that are problematic (I did that to the 3e cleric's turn undead)

But you're venting, so yeah. Paladins suck.


Gnomes and rapiers, too! Wait, sorry. I thought you were @lowkey13 for a moment
 

Why did the death knight just charge into a meat grinder? He may be dead but that doesn't mean that he has to be stupid. Why not soften up the opposition with his fireball?
 

Gwarok

Explorer
Why did the death knight just charge into a meat grinder? He may be dead but that doesn't mean that he has to be stupid. Why not soften up the opposition with his fireball?

Well the Death Knight wasn't a free roaming Death Knight. There were a bunch of Dao who captured this guy known as the "Heart of Fire". He was well protected by a contract with some powerful creatures. The Dao defeated those guardians with great loss, and imprisoned the Heart of Fire to a tower in their stronghold back in the Elemental Plane of Earth. What they didn't know was the contract was one that extended beyond death, so those dead guardians came back, chased the Dao out of their own tower, and continued to protect the Heart of Fire, with their champion reborn as a Death Knight in the final sanctum. The party was tasked with returning the Heart of Fire to his kin, and after beating what was left of the Dao, went into the tower to fight their way past the undead guardians. It was probably one of the more intersting and successful adventures we've ever run, with the Warlock making very good use of his suggestions, Mass Suggestion, and overall CHA skills to eventually turn half of the remaining Dao against their leader.

But still, the Death Knight was meant as a door stop, I didn't think they'd actually fight him. He did use his fireball, it just didn't do much, and he was dead 3 rounds later.
 



mellored

Legend
Paladins are weak to ranged attacks and mobs. A small army of skeletons with slings can do a number. Doesn't mater if they drop in 1 hit, he can only hit 2 per turn. Also toss in some radiant resistant golems, as well as maneuverable ghosts that can do fly-by-night attacks. And of course, let a few things for him to smash and feel powerful against.
 

BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
You can say screw Paladins. I mean if anybody needs to get laid and loosen up it's those metal-clad, uptight, stick-in-their-butts.

Also you have discovered why Harry Dresden feels a lot better with Michael Carpenter at his side.

Lastly, so what's going to happen after the Death Knight reconstitutes?
 

epithet

Explorer
As a DM, I love the paladin. Having a paladin in the group is like having a ring through its nose - you can lead it wherever you want it to go, and you know ahead of time what to prep. Powerful undead and fiends will have mortal minions, and less the weaker ones can show up in sufficient numbers that the paladin's resource pool is badly depleted before the BBEG even shows up. Most of the challenges of dealing with a paladin are the same as those of dealing with a cleric, to be fair.

The biggest problem with paladins (and fighters, and some clerics) is that their AC gets high early, and makes them nearly impervious to minion swarms until you get into the mid levels.
 


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