CoS SPOILER Dark Gift The Kingmaker and Tome of leadership and influence stack?

kalani

First Post
Yes they do stack and you can gain up to a max of 26 cha doing this method. Start at 18 cha some how be it ASI or some thing then go get the dark gift from CoS. This will get you to 22 cha. Then and only if you feel like risking the existence of your very char due to a disintegrate type effect you can go into maze engine which will get you 24 cha. Then use a Tome to get 26. This is BEYOND risky and I would only attempt doing this if I had a paladin in the group due to their aura but thats pretty much the biggest meta game / power play you can do lol. 26 cha on a warlock or paladin is freaking nuts

Sorry, in AL this is not true outside of running three separate hardcovers. The only way it is possible is to run Curse of Strahd first (to get the dark gift), then run OotA to get the Maze Engine effect, and then run Yawning Portal or SKT and get a lucky roll for a tome. This is extremely unlikely as the latter two are completely dependent upon random rolls.

If only running CoS and one of the other adventures, you can potentially end up with a max 24 Charisma (22 from Dark Gift; +2 from Tome). As per ALFAQ, you cannot benefit from more than one Tome of Leadership, so that would give you a max 24 without Maze Engine shenanigans; at which point I would be carefully auditing your logsheets for other highly questionable bonuses as the odds of this happening are extremely low.
 

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MiraMels

Explorer
Is it even possible to finish Curse of Strahd at a low enough character level to qualify for starting/playing Out of the Abyss?
 

NeverLucky

First Post
Sorry, in AL this is not true outside of running three separate hardcovers. The only way it is possible is to run Curse of Strahd first (to get the dark gift), then run OotA to get the Maze Engine effect, and then run Yawning Portal or SKT and get a lucky roll for a tome. This is extremely unlikely as the latter two are completely dependent upon random rolls.

If only running CoS and one of the other adventures, you can potentially end up with a max 24 Charisma (22 from Dark Gift; +2 from Tome). As per ALFAQ, you cannot benefit from more than one Tome of Leadership, so that would give you a max 24 without Maze Engine shenanigans; at which point I would be carefully auditing your logsheets for other highly questionable bonuses as the odds of this happening are extremely low.
Keep in mind, you can trade for a Tome, or use Dedicated DM if you gave one out from SKT, so it's not that hard to get both Dark Gift and Tome if you try hard enough. Maze Engine is, of course, a whole nother issue.

Is it even possible to finish Curse of Strahd at a low enough character level to qualify for starting/playing Out of the Abyss?
Out of the Abyss ends at level 15. CoS usually ends at 9 or 10.
 

rooneg

Adventurer
Is it even possible to finish Curse of Strahd at a low enough character level to qualify for starting/playing Out of the Abyss?

Keep in mind that technically you don't have to start at the beginning of a hardcover, or if you do start at the beginning there's no particular reason you have to start at the appropriate level (assuming you're within the level range of the book in question). There's nothing stopping you from finishing Curse of Strahd and then playing up the second half of Out of the Abyss. Heck, there's nothing stopping you from just playing the particular chapters of both HCs with a barexit in between them if that's how you roll. You can't just cherry pick the particular encounters that give you the dark gift and the maze engine interaction, but as long as you're playing the whole chapters that contain them it's technically legal.
 

Mathilda

Explorer
I would like to point out that there are players playing online that have picked up a Deck of Many Things and getting a 24 Stat that way as well
 

xanstin

Explorer
While fully realizing that different people enjoy different things, the idea of a group that runs specific chapters outside the whole arc just to snipe items to min max makes me not want to continue AL. The inclusion of hardcovers in AL is great, but has led to some interesting situations with players that have the above said bonus and also black dragon mask or elemental weapons, all items integral to story that shouldn't end up with players but do so because they sniped the item from playing said chapter. I can't imagine being in a store where a player comes in plays one chapter takes a important item needed for campaign conclusion then leaves after he gets it, destroying the campaign so he can feel special.


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Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.
Keep in mind, you can trade for a Tome

Based on the text of the Curse of Strahd amendment, I'm guessing Tomes are not tradable:

"As an uncerted item, the tome of understanding may not be traded, even if the owner possesses campaign documentation that allows the trade of uncerted items."

Although the FAQ refers to sources outside the ALPG and other documents when it describes 'campaign documentation', I'd consider the ALPG as campaign documentation, which this specific rule overrides (as specific beats general). The tome from CoS is therefore permanently untradeable without an explicit change to that listed rule in the CoS Amendment.

or use Dedicated DM if you gave one out from SKT

This only works if the rarity of the item is not legendary or unique. Note that the rarity of items in AL can be different than the listed rarity of the same item in the DMG, and any item not listed in the DMG that doesn't include a cert is considered 'unique'. (See FAQ 6.1, p.9) An item is also considered 'unique' if it has properties/abilities that aren't included in the item's description in the DMG or on the list of Special Features on pp.142-143 of the DMG. (Ibid.)

I leave it as an exercise to the reader to determine the effective rarity of the tomes in Curse of Strahd and Storm King's Thunder.

so it's not that hard to get both Dark Gift and Tome if you try hard enough.

Keep in mind as well, the Dark Gift requires your character to succeed at a saving throw or be taken over by the possessing vestige -- if the character fails, and is not already of a lawful alignment, the character is retired until such time as another character is able to cast a wish on his behalf, reversing the bestowal of the Dark Gift (and removing the bonus). And note that because of the rule on 'table boundaries' for wish (see FAQ 6.1, p.8), this means that if you don't get a wish spell during the session your character becomes illegal, then it becomes all but impossible to make the character legal again. So the Maze Engine is not the only hazard in pursuing this.

Miramels said:
Is it even possible to finish Curse of Strahd at a low enough character level to qualify for starting/playing Out of the Abyss?

There is technically no tier restriction on any hardcover adventure prior to Tales from the Yawning Portal -- a group of level 1 characters could legally start Out of the Abyss with a level 10 accomplice. However, all characters must be within the legal range for the hardcover adventure to play any part of it together, regardless of tier. So if the level 10 character joins a low-level party hoping to find the Maze Engine and then levels out of the OotA adventure range before the party finds it, that high-level character cannot continue playing OotA.

The campaign rules do allow for a group to play a single chapter of a hardcover adventure, but they must play the entire chapter, not just a single encounter (such as the encounter with the Maze Engine). Note that the previous rule on 'leveling out' of a hardcover can act as a loophole to this rule; if a character levels out of an adventure before completing the chapter, he is not allowed to continue, despite the rule that would otherwise compel that character to continue.

Of course, all of this presumes a DM that knows and understands these rules; it would be very easy for a DM not to know them, or misinterpret them ("oh, Rise of Tiamat allows up to level 15 characters, so the other hardcovers must, too."); this doesn't make such play legal, but it does underscore the importance of detailed logging so that unintentionally illegal play can be identified and corrected.

--
Pauper
 

xanstin

Explorer
The CoS amendment 1.1 unless it has changed states that your character becomes legal again 1 year and 1 day later without the gift of course as the vestige leaves. It has some additional penalties as well


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NeverLucky

First Post
Based on the text of the Curse of Strahd amendment, I'm guessing Tomes are not tradable:
Tomes from Curse of Strahd are not tradeable. No such restrictions exist for tomes from anywhere else. There is at least one other place you can get a Leadership Tome besides SKT.

This only works if the rarity of the item is not legendary or unique. Note that the rarity of items in AL can be different than the listed rarity of the same item in the DMG, and any item not listed in the DMG that doesn't include a cert is considered 'unique'. (See FAQ 6.1, p.9) An item is also considered 'unique' if it has properties/abilities that aren't included in the item's description in the DMG or on the list of Special Features on pp.142-143 of the DMG. (Ibid.)

I leave it as an exercise to the reader to determine the effective rarity of the tomes in Curse of Strahd and Storm King's Thunder.
This is not really relevant as tomes and manuals have a rarity of very rare from the DMG. The ones from SKT are randomly rolled and are thus completely generic versions of themselves, while the ones from modules are labeled as very rare in the adventures themselves.
 

Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.
Tomes from Curse of Strahd are not tradeable. No such restrictions exist for tomes from anywhere else. There is at least one other place you can get a Leadership Tome besides SKT.

You're sure about that? Based on my AL library, there are two AL mods where one might collect a Tome of Understanding (+Wis), but none where one could collect a Tome of Leadership and Influence (+Cha). Since the whole point of this thread is stacking the Tome with a Dark Gift that also grants a Charisma bonus, that's a pretty significant difference.

This is not really relevant as tomes and manuals have a rarity of very rare from the DMG.

It's relevant in the sense that, if a tome is published with a quirk or other ability that doesn't come out of the DMG, then that tome is Unique without a cert. You do appear to be correct, though, that currently available tomes (save the Curse of Strahd tome) do not fall into this category.

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Pauper
 

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