Dual Wield Swashbuckler

Baldguy33 · May 21, 2017

Decided to make a Swashbuckler rogue for a upcoming campaign, and I really cant decide if Dual Wield feat is worth it or not OR if a different feat might be better? current stats are 8 16 14 8 10 16

Ive also debated on going Half elf instead

Anyone have any sugestions? Anyone played or is currently playing one?

Please give a bit of advice

UngeheuerLich · May 21, 2017

The feat is ok. Useful. But I really don't like dual wielding rapiers from a style perspective.
Rapier and dagger is nice though. AC +1 also helps.
A different feat may be defensive duellist. +2 AC once in a while. Later it competes with uncanny dodge though. Depending on how your Master confers informatio how close a hit is.
Another interesting feat may be magic adept and mage armor. That way you can walk around unarmored and have better AC than light armor. At least for 8 hours a day. And two nice cantrips which may be booming blade and whatever you like. If you want to make your charisma count even more take inspiring leader.

mellored · May 22, 2017

dual wielder gives you +1 damage, +1 AC.
+2 dex gives you +1 damage, AC, to-hit, initiive, saving throws, and skills.

After you have 20 dex, then maybe dual wielder.

Baldguy33 · May 22, 2017

No I mean upon creation im not sure dual wielder is really worth it. But maybe it is ? Stats im thinking about are 8 15(1) 14 8 10 15(1) .........8 16 14 8 10 16 Variant Human Dual Wield feat

Volund · May 22, 2017

Here is an alternative to consider: start with 8 15 13 8 12 15 and take the Resilient (Con) feat. Your hp will be the same but you will be better at Con and Wis saves. I say this because:
1) The extra hp for a rapier vs a short sword is not as important for rogues as rolling sneak attack dice as often as possible. If you want to do more damage while dual wielding, take a level of fighter and take TWF for the Dex bonus to the off hand attack.
2) Your Fancy Footwork ability makes it less likely for you to be targeted with melee attacks, so Dual Wielder's AC benefit is less important to you than it would be to other rogue types who can't avoid AoO if they use their bonus action for off hand attacks.
3) A lot of bad things will happen to you if you don't make Con saves. If you take Resilient (Con), with Evasion and maybe eventually Slippery Mind you will be a save monkey.

I haven't played a swashbuckler but I have one in the party I regularly play with. Our swashbuckler's shtick is hit and run, using Fancy Footwork to avoid AoO. If her first attack hits for a sneak attack, she often gets out of the way without making an off hand attack in order to use her bonus action to hide or dash to some other position in the fight. She uses her bonus action for the off hand attack if the first attack misses, and then uses remaining movement to get away. The upshot is that attacks against her AC happen less often because, unlike other rogues, she never has to choose between staying put to use her bonus action for a second try at landing her sneak attack or else using her bonus action on Cunning Action to disengage. Assuming she didn't use all her movement to engage or there aren't more than two adjacent enemies, she can always step out of melee range without triggering an AoO.

smbakeresq · May 22, 2017

Half elf can be a very good choice as a swashbuckler because you need feats less than ABI and can take them later. You save on the mobile feat right away. The CHR bonus will help you and more skills and dark vision is always good. At creation you can put 14 into CHR and 15 into DEX and CON.

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Yunru · May 22, 2017

Normally I would recommend Mobile, but since you're a swashbuckler that's kinda redundant.

Is Dual Wielder worth it? Not really. The question is whether there's anything better for you.

Personally I'd say go for Athlete. It boosts your Dex (yay!), increases your mobility (yay!), and lessens the impact of a quite nasty condition (yay!).
Or Actor if you want to focus more on the Social Pillar.

RCanine · May 23, 2017

Since you only get one sneak attack per round, and dual wielding also eats your bonus action, it's actually not that exciting for a swashbuckler. It's a nice way hedge your bets against a really bad roll when one-on-one, but you're generally better off just disengaging as a bonus action when surrounded.

IMO having a free hand to carry the macguffin, open a door, etc. and you can always keep a few daggers in your sleeve -- an off-hand dagger can also be thrown, which is very nice. IMO without also getting the dual-wielder fighting style, the damage you're going to be doing with an off-hand attack is so negligible that you're only going to miss it when that's the only way to get a sneak attack in.

As such, it's not worth the feat investment. You get six ASI's over your career and will probably want to be spending them on DEX, CHA and there are a other interesting feats for rogues. I don't think it warrants a slot.

pdegan2814 · May 24, 2017

I've played a Swashbuckler with the Dual Wielder feat, fighting with a Rapier/Dagger combo, for the classic dueling feel. Went Human(variant) and took it as my bonus feat. I can't tell you if it's the optimal way to go mathematically, but it was definitely fun and allowed me to lean into the duelist archetype. When the Sneak Attack dice started growing, I appreciated having the extra chance to land it against tougher enemies.