WOIN Options for Supernatural Attributes? - Page 2
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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
    I think it looks like a lot of effort, and I'm not sure what the gain is.
    What part do you see effort in? Which option does that apply to? Is restructuring the game to one of the Alternate Roll Methods the "lot of effort" part? Or are you saying that even saying a SNA grants +2 to each of its dice is too much effort? Can you clarify?

    As to the gain.

    The intent is to use the same general Attribute Scale for everyone since all species get the same rough net +5 Ability modifiers. That doesn't work when throwing in supernaturals into the mix. By the system as it it stands, defining something like a Giant (alla Fantasy Craft style, not D&D Hill Giant style) as a PC.

    I want Supernautral Attributes to matter and to be species defining.

    As stated above , if the scale remains the the same I want a Giant with average STR 3, to feel more powerful than a Human with average STR 3. Simply because what is average for a Giant is still superior to what average is for a Human. An average Giant should be able to lift more, perform SR based tasks more easily, and cause more physical damage than an average Human. I would rather do this without having to simply throw more modifiers at the Giants STR die pool, considering its a lose sum game due to Pool Caps.

    Which do you see as working better (and closer to the game's balance):
    * Supernatural STR dice increase in dye size to d10s.
    or
    * Giants all start with +8 to STR?

  2. #12
    It seems what your shooting for is shifting the benchmarks. What might be strenuous for a human may merely be difficult for a giant. So, maybe give the giant a STR related exploit.

    Giant Strength. Giants are known for their great strength. All STR related tests are decreased by two shifts on the Difficulty Benchmark table.

    This would, essentially, make a Difficult [16] task a Routine [10] task for giants. It's the equivalent of a 2d6 bonus to the STR score.

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  3. #13
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    I feel like the change to dice types is overly complicated. Also, having played dozens of systems and read hundreds, I can say that I'm not overly impressed with the common approach to this. Instead of increasing dice pools, damage, defenses (for this way leads to folly!), or the core mechanics, instead I believe supernatural attributes should give you "abilities". One could argue that a giant should simply have more STR and END. I would agree, and we don't need special rules for that. But, letting a PC play a Giant will favor that PC in combat. Instead, maybe we let the PC play a "half-giant" where they can lift more, carry more and wield larger weapons without increasing their overall dice pool?

    I am working out my approach to the challenge and will post it once complete. This is a very poignant issue for me, as the setting I'm writing will have a menagerie of various species from the mundane to the magical. I think these rules will be very PC-Focused, as the suggestions for building monsters are less "stringent" (which they should be) and I would not approach granting supernatural attributes to PCs in the same manner as I can quickly eyeball making a monster.

    More to follow...

  4. #14
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    Increasing the die size for specific attributes does work. I'm literally - right now - trying to decide whether to keep that in the mutant powers in N.O.W. or cut it out. As powers, they're only a tiny amount of text.

    I'm not sure I'd do it just because of a creature's size - after all, we don't give every large creature in the game larger dice, and the dice pools themselves get increasingly harder to enlarge, by design. So you can scale up attributes to 100 or more without the dice pools getting equally large.

    My main issue with increasing die sizes is the increased swinginess. 6d10 is a heck of a lot more swingy than 6d6 is. It makes it that much harder for a GM to estimate appropriate challenge difficulties.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by M3woods View Post
    It seems what your shooting for is shifting the benchmarks. What might be strenuous for a human may merely be difficult for a giant.
    This is largely what I was going for, though I do think there should be a damage difference as well which I have to figure out how best to apply.

    So, maybe give the giant a STR related exploit.
    Giant Strength. Giants are known for their great strength. All STR related tests are decreased by two shifts on the Difficulty Benchmark table.

    This would, essentially, make a Difficult [16] task a Routine [10] task for giants. It's the equivalent of a 2d6 bonus to the STR score.
    This works very well. for the difference in STR-based benchmarks.

    Next questions - Is there any form of guide on how to create exploits? Or is it currently guestimating based on existing exploits?

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaalis View Post
    Next questions - Is there any form of guide on how to create exploits? Or is it currently guestimating based on existing exploits?
    I'm currently writing an article on that exact subject but I'd like to pass it by Russ before publishing it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by M3woods View Post
    I'm currently writing an article on that exact subject but I'd like to pass it by Russ before publishing it.


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    Looking forward to that article!

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TreChriron View Post
    Looking forward to that article!
    ^^ Ditto.

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