Learning Curve

I looked into javelins, spears, and now axes the ranges suck on them 35 feet for the spear I think is the longest. Why I wanted the heavy crossbow it is 120 long range. I do like the idea of the returning throwing ax for dealing with fleeing enemies. I realize that the heavy crossbow is an every other turn affair and I don't see Mash with a longbow doesn't fit the image in my head. Mash kinda reminds me of Worf from STNG.
 

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Tony Vargas

Legend
As I mentioned early on in this, the "What would I want a bow for?" mentality isn't limited to the current party. I've been seeing it for decades at a lot of tables. As soon as a combat shifts out of a character's specialty, they're suddenly useless/helpless.
3.x heavily rewards focused/specialist builds, especially outside of the Tier 1 full casters. Your wizard can be primarily a civilian in concept, but if he preps some kaboom spells because they're what's called for that day, he's a fully-functional kaboom wizard. A fighter who's all-in on melee specialization can pick up a bow, but he won't suddenly be an effective archer.

The same goes for the reverse: In our first 3.0 campaign, one player decided to play a classic longbowman, he wore chainmail and had a hand ax as backup, because 'historical accuracy' (IDK what his source was, so don't bother). What he quickly found out was that he'd have better AC in lighter armor, and switching to the hand ax was usually foolish, because he did so much more damage with the bow, and could generally just 5'-step back and let fly. As he continued to pick up archery feats and a magic bow, it became worth his while to just stand and eat the AoO rather than pull out the hand ax, even when he couldn't get away.

So I guess my sore spot isn't the current party, or even the no-archers thing. It's the learning curve, the time it takes players in general (probably including me) to adapt to changing circumstance and tactics.
It's easy to get into a rut, especially when you play a character that's consistently best off specializing and deepening his specialty, and play it for many levels. I don't think it's fair to blame the players, it's a quality of the game, and the learning curve is acquiring the system mastery to build those specialists.
 

Greenfield

Adventurer
To be clear, this "kaboom mage" probably hasn't cast five Fireball spells in his life. Lightning Bolt? Fewer. Most of the time he doesn't even have those spells prepared.

His favorite spell is Grease, followed closely by Ray of Enfeeblement. Resilient Sphere is a great, non-lethal way of dealing with an adversary, and Stinking Cloud can disable without killing.

His big, go-to damage spell? Scorching Ray.

He's big on non-lethal spells, and I tried to get Non-Lethal Substitution for him early on, but it isn't in any of the books we've approved for the campaign.

The first time the party set out with him they were surprised that he'd prepared Unseen Servant, to set up his tent and prepare a meal, instead of some combat spell.

He had that and Grease prepared. Didn't even know Magic Missile or Shield.

He was a minor court dandy, literally dragged out of the crowd by the King so he wouldn't have to deal with the PCs directly.

He's spent his spare time finding odd objects to Shrink Item on, so he can have them handy. A 12 foot ladder, a long slab of iron that can act as a bridge. I think he has a door in there someplace, along with a campfire, a few party meals, all hot and ready, a ship's deck grating (5x5), a few empty chests, and some pretty-pretties so he has nice gifts available for when we visit someone important. Oh, and a few bottles of decent wine.

We play that an object subjected to Shrink Item can be kept in that state beyond the normal duration if you store it in something too small to allow expansion. There isn't a hard rule on it anyplace. The closest is the Enlarge Person spell, that says if there isn't room for the person to grow, they grow to the limits of the available space, unless they can break through the confinement with an Strength check. Since objects don't have a Strength score...

So he's far more of a utility mage, and a bit of a "Mr Pockets", than a kaboom type.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
To be clear, this "kaboom mage" probably hasn't cast five Fireball spells in his life. Lightning Bolt? Fewer. Most of the time he doesn't even have those spells prepared.

His favorite spell is Grease, followed closely by Ray of Enfeeblement. Resilient Sphere is a great, non-lethal way of dealing with an adversary, and Stinking Cloud can disable without killing.

His big, go-to damage spell? Scorching Ray.
....
So he's far more of a utility mage, and a bit of a "Mr Pockets", than a kaboom type.
Yet you created this impression in your fellow player:
Windhaven is the kaboom mage. Part of the reason party doesn't rely on ranged were spoiled on his magic for ranged combat. Makes it hard when he is game mastering. Not a complaint just an observation. We need to stop relying on Windy so much and step up as a party and do what needs to get done.
To clarify Michael's comments: In another forum I'm called Windhaven. My PC, when someone else DMs, is named Cyrano. And while he has some nasty spells, he's been far more a "Civilian" mentality than a kaboom mage.
Interesting that you clearly put a lot of thought into a cool character concept and a theme for how he uses magic, but still get summed up as the 'kaboom mage' that the party has become over-reliant upon for ranged power.

(Edit: One of the things I liked about the 3.x Sorcerer, even though it was theoretically 'Tier2' & inferior to the Wizard, was that it avoided the temptation to take an out-of-character spell to deal with a specific situation. With a wizard, if you knew fireball was going to be optimal, you might be tempted to prepare it, as a Sorcerer, you had to figure out the best way to use what you had.)
 
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I have to agree we've been overly reliant on anyone with ranged weapons or spells. I myself don't think of it cause of concept and I need to break out of that mold. That is why I want the biggest ugliest looking ranged weapon I can find. I would like a heavy crossbow in the shape of a dragon. I think maybe giving it an elemental type for it making it a +1.
 

Greenfield

Adventurer
Kind of makes me wish the Crossbow of speed was still around. ~

Repeating crossbows are always light. Still, I have faith that someone will come up with something.
 

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