The Pride Of Blue Rose

After a successful Kickstarter project, Green Ronin Publishing have put out a second edition of their Blue Rose role-playing game. Inspired by the works of romantic fantasy from authors such as Mercedes Lackey, Tamora Pierce and Diane Duane, Blue Rose was originally powered by a variant of the D20 rules that Green Ronin called True20, and this new game uses the company's house system called the Adventure Game Engine, or AGE. The rules themselves are descended from the company's licensed role-playing game based upon the franchise of the Dragon Age computer games.


After a successful Kickstarter project, Green Ronin Publishing have put out a second edition of their Blue Rose role-playing game. Inspired by the works of romantic fantasy from authors such as Mercedes Lackey, Tamora Pierce and Diane Duane, Blue Rose was originally powered by a variant of the D20 rules that Green Ronin called True20, and this new game uses the company's house system called the Adventure Game Engine, or AGE. The rules themselves are descended from the company's licensed role-playing game based upon the franchise of the Dragon Age computer games.

The design team of Steve Kenson and Jack Norris manage to bring the inspirations of the original Blue Rose game into the newer AGE system. Since Kenson worked on developing the True20 system that powered the first edition of the game, this makes sense. Blue Rose is a self-contained book that doesn't require any other AGE system book for play. It isn't just a matter of pushing the existing world of Aldea into the AGE rules, however. The rules of Blue Rose are set apart from games like Fantasy AGE by the incorporation of some first edition rules.

Conviction is a mechanic that was an important part of the first edition of Blue Rose. It is a narrative control tool, not unlike Fate Points in Fate Core, or a number of other role-playing games. Spending conviction can do things from helping your character in combats, to helping them better survive the effects of those combat situations. Fate point mechanics are good ways to create a cinematic, swashbuckling tone for a game because they can help to mitigate the impact that poor dice rolling can have on such a game. Few things can as quickly ruin a campaign as the randomness of dice rolling undercutting the fact that characters are supposed to be doing flashy, larger than life things and failing because the player rolled a one.

The 3d6 dice rolling for the task resolution systems of AGE does also help to get rid of some of the whiff factor of the original rules, which used the standard D20 mechanic of rolling a single d20 die for task resolution. A part of the reason why rules like the original Conviction rules sprang up around D20 variants was because of the fact that d20-based resolution can often be binary in its results: you succeed or you fail at a task. More often the result is failure, and slows down play while a task is attempted over and over, looking for the needed success. A 3d6 resolution mechanic can also add granularity to resolution attempts, making it possible to add degrees of success that can make results more spectacular, or more horrible, than a simple binary "You Succeed!" or "You Fail!"

The AGE stunt mechanic can also add more long term verisimilitude to task resolution. Rolling doubles on two of the three dice can earn your character stunt points which can be spent later one to add flourishes to future tasks on behalf of your character. There are a number of ways to utilize stunt points, from magic to interactions to other character abilities.

Characters are class-based, and informed by the three generic classes that were used in the original game (which in turn were adapted from material published in the Unearthed Arcana book published by Wizards of the Coast for the Dungeons & Dragons 3.x rules), and updated to the current rules. The Fantasy AGE rules do use a similar set up for the game's classes, but the design of the classes in Blue Rose is to my eye a bit more generic than those rules. This isn't a bad thing, because there are a number of ways to differentiate one character from another in these rules. Where the classes give the basic niche of your character (magic for Adepts, fighting for Warriors and skills and knowledge for Experts), the customization for characters comes with focuses, talents and specializations. These are all things from the AGE rules. Focuses are focused, specialized areas within the abilities of your characters that make them better at specific sorts of tasks. Talents are special abilities available to characters. Specializations work in a way similar to how prestige classes worked under the D20 system, they represent a specialized capability or profession within the more general classes, they also unlock talents that would not otherwise be available to a character. Where you have the generic Warrior that represents the idea of the fighter-type of characters, you can show how your Warrior is different from another in your group by picking things like the Berserker or the Champion specialization for your character. These specializations are how you build upon the wider, and more generic, niche of your character's class, and customize that niche into something more unique for your character.

If you've played a D20 game, the talents will be mechanically familiar to you because they work not unlike that system's feats. They give characters special abilities and special rules exceptions that let them do extraordinary tasks within a game.

There are also human cultures and non-human races that are available to characters. The non-human races are flavorful, and offer a number of meaningful role-playing opportunities to players. They are unique to the setting of Blue Rose, and while they are obviously inspired by fantasy concepts like elves and orcs, they manage to bring new ideas and interpretations of these archetypes to the gaming table. Vata, for example, clearly aren't elves (despite filling a similar niche within the world), but at the same time they aren't the "Nope. These totally aren't elves." approach that you get in a lot of games. They are original concepts that do not derive their concepts from running down the archetypes. This is a welcome change in RPG world building.

All of these character options work to add uniqueness to characters without adding a lot of complexity to them. Despite the AGE rules drawing inspiration from the D20 system, and some ideas from earlier editions of D&D as well, they do so in a much more streamlined manner than the D20 rules manage. There are as many special cases for GMs to remember in the AGE rules, and there aren't as many character options for players to wade through either.

Another mechanic that has come over from the first edition of Blue Rose would be the Corruption rules. Corruption is something that fits into the theme of the romantic fantasy that the game emulates. In a way it is a mechanical implementation of the oft-quoted Bob Dylan song lyric: "to live outside the law, you must be honest." Taken from his song Absolutely Sweet Marie the idea is something that you often see in heroic fiction, and comic books. The idea of Corruption is that the darkness of the world, which is literal in a world where magic and supernatural creatures are real, can taint even those who are the most good, tempting them to follow a darker, and sometimes easier, path. These are conflicts that you see in a lot of romantic fantasy, and in settings like that of the Star Wars universe, with its internal and external conflicts between the Jedi and the Sith. Embracing this Corruption is easier for characters in Blue Rose sometimes, but "easy" isn't always the best path for heroes.

The Corruption mechanic ties into Callings, which are another character option. Callings aren't as simple as talents or specializations, because they address how a character fits into the world of the game, or into the overall story of the campaign that a group is playing through. Following through with the ideals of a Calling is how a character earns Conviction. Callings will tell you how your character moves towards their long and short term goals. Like with Corruption, Callings are an idea carried over from the first edition of Blue Rose and help to show how your character is a part of the game's world.

The setting of Blue Rose, the world of Aldea, is where the game really sings. Rather than relying on the same tropes that inform just about every other fantasy game on the market, or call back to the same set of inspirations (whether drawing upon Tolkien or Howard or Moorcock), the game instead looks to the tropes that are important to romantic fantasy. Obviously, romance is one of these things, but gender and sexuality can also play important parts of romantic fantasy. Romantic fantasy not only elevates the women who are characters out of the secondary roles that they often fill in more traditional style of fantasy, but they make them the protagonists of the stories as well. Yes, Jirel of Joiry exists. Yes, Red Sonja exists. Yes, there are women-lead stories in high fantasy and swords and sorcery fiction. No one is saying that these characters, these stories, do not exist. The problem is that for those genres they are still the exception rather than the rule. There are still more stories and movies with male protagonists than female ones in these genres. That is one of the strengths of romantic fantasy, and the draw of it for a lot of people who do not identify as traditionally male in any number of ways.

It isn't coincidence that this review is "coming out" after the weekend that many celebrate Pride around the world, and in the same week as the anniversary of the Stonewall Riots that triggered what we would eventually come to know as Pride. Blue Rose normalizes homosexual relationships in the same way that heterosexual relationships are normalized in other fantasy settings. In worlds where shape shifting, magical fleshshaping and magical artifacts that can impact gender or presentation are so common, it shouldn't be such a strange idea that people would be free to adopt the gender, or genders, with which they identify themselves, even if they are not born that way. On the world of Aldea, like in many real world religions, not all deities conform to the binary standards of gender, and because of that the people who worship those gods should not be required to do this either. Obviously some cultures are more accepting of this than others, but overall the world is one that has much, much more of what is called an egalitarian nature than what you see in a lot of fantasy worlds. The idea that the existence of magic or werewolves in a game is okay, but somehow men marrying one another, or individuals choosing the gender (or genders) with which they identify, "break fantasy" is a strange one for me.

There are a number of lands that fill the world of Aldea. The lands of Aldis are assumed to be where player characters are from, while the antagonists are typically those people from the Theocracy of Jarzon or Kern, which was once ruled with a brutal hand by a Lich King. All three of these countries are outlined, but Aldis is given the lion share of description. A couple of other countries are outlined as well, and the nomadic culture of Roamers is talked about as well. The world of Aldea is well described, and everything that you might need to explore the world is contained in the Blue Rose book.

The designers did a great job of customizing the AGE rules to fit the Blue Rose game, and making sure that the new game lives up to the legacy of the first edition. I was a fan of the first edition of Blue Rose, not just because of the well-designed rules, but also because of the unique setting. I don't think that fantasy role-playing games push at the boundaries of the genre in the same way that the fiction does. We need more boundary pushing in RPGs across the board, if we ever want to see the fanbase expand and grow in new directions. Games like Blue Rose are an integral part of this boundary pushing and growth, and we need more well-made games like this.
 

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Aldarc

Legend
Makes sense.

When I'm in a group, I tend to exist on two levels at the same time - on in character and one out.
That also makes sense. And for me it's within the space of the "one out" level that I have space for the narrativist leanings of Fate.

To briefly resume an earlier conversation: I do think that fate points exists within the blur of these two levels, which I can see how that I would be disruptive in some regards if you wanted to stay in that one level. Event-compels tend to be less controversial. Your character is "Bearer of the Heraldric Shield," so the GM compels that aspect such that someone recognizes that shield and wants it. In D&D, of course a GM could do this anway, but Fate really drives home that the character-you-make is the character-you-play, since the narrative is driven more by how you define your character (via aspects) than the mechanics of your character. The more controversial is the decision-compel. But when the GM 'compels' my character towards a decision, I primarily stay in my character's head space. But the GM's voice is that stray thought in the back in my mind, or that base instinct that I have for my character. Do I listen to it? Or do I buckle-down on my will and ignore/overcome it?

I generally regard fate points in the same realm as dice rolls (and asking the GM the usual "would it be possible if my character did this?") for my characters. Fate points are even on my character sheet. They are like hero points, but they are points that I may be rewarded for roleplaying my character well, much like inspiration dice, XP for good RP, etc. But this likely gets back to the familiarity and habit breeding effortless intimacy such that one does not have to leave character space to engage the rules.

The fact that 70-80% of my gaming is done solo, with my wife GMing really colors my approach.
There's a couple I know who are doing this, and they have had a good experience playing D&D this way. It would be interesting to try. But my current group size is five, which seems to be the magic number. It's basically the aforementioned couple, my fiance, her best friend, and I. It's a good group, because the people are socially stable.

Are you familar with Dungeon World (or Powered by the Apocalypse), as I wonder if that would also be conducive to your roleplaying style. Also, perhaps for the benefit of this thread, what are your thoughts, if any, on Blue Rose AGE?
 

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Your character is "Bearer of the Heraldric Shield," so the GM compels that aspect such that someone recognizes that shield and wants it. In D&D, of course a GM could do this anway, but Fate really drives home that the character-you-make is the character-you-play, since the narrative is driven more by how you define your character (via aspects) than the mechanics of your character. The more controversial is the decision-compel. But when the GM 'compels' my character towards a decision, I primarily stay in my character's head space. But the GM's voice is that stray thought in the back in my mind, or that base instinct that I have for my character. Do I listen to it? Or do I buckle-down on my will and ignore/overcome it?

Yeah, that is exactly why those hit me. As my purpose in gaming to become the character I would "cheating" if I didn't have reactions and emotions of that character when that event arises. While playing the GM has someone want the shield, I feel what the character is feeling "Hey, I'm the bearer" and have to work though, in character how he responds. That is the entire point of roleplaying for me - working through those things that I have defined for the character and explore the character's reaction to the world and situations around him. Having mechanics do that for me, takes away why I play.
It would be like a fight for people that love detailed tactical play (say D&D 4E) in games and rolling one simple roll to decide who won a fight.

Are you familar with Dungeon World (or Powered by the Apocalypse), as I wonder if that would also be conducive to your roleplaying style. Also, perhaps for the benefit of this thread, what are your thoughts, if any, on Blue Rose AGE?

Not familiar with Dungeon World.

Blue rose is an amazing setting. I played it in the old version and like the new one. I'm likely not going to play it natively, as our group is HERO only, and I've found it hard to adapt that to solo play (due to it being a bit more lethal system than what I normally play, and unfamiliarity with system). the book is amazing looking, and I love the writing. Planning to play it with another system. :)
 

pemerton

Legend
Here's a paradox for you:

Some tables and some systems grant XP (or similar benefits) for roleplaying.

You get a roleplaying award when you dramatically acting out your character.

But a player choosing to dramatically act out his/her character is, necessarily, not making a decision from the perspective of his/her PC.

Hence, such a player is not roleplaying, and hence is never eligible for the roleplaying award.

Hence, roleplaying awards can never be earned.
 

Here's a paradox for you:

Some tables and some systems grant XP (or similar benefits) for roleplaying.

You get a roleplaying award when you dramatically acting out your character.

But a player choosing to dramatically act out his/her character is, necessarily, not making a decision from the perspective of his/her PC.

Hence, such a player is not roleplaying, and hence is never eligible for the roleplaying award.

Hence, roleplaying awards can never be earned.

I know gamers who prefer different XP reward methods for this reason (simply having it be a matter of time for example, or having abilities improve only when you use them). Among players who value immersion it is often a major point of contention. Personally I don't worry too much about XP and try to keep it as simple as possible these days but I get where people are coming from on this one.
 

The FATE character also knows that chi is a limited resource.

But I see the difference you are drawing: in D&D the monk player can manage his/her ki points in a way that the FATE player can't (because there is no set schedule for gaining/refreshing fate points).

To me the latter is more immersive because actually closer to real life as I understand it (especially when I think about it through a dramatic lens): I don't know how much harder I can push myself until I try. I don't manage my determination like I manage my bank account.

With Ki, it really depends on what it is modeling (and what you are trying to model is what I think most of these discussions boil down to). If it is the kind the stuff from wuxia where you are cultivating actual energy that your character is aware of in your own body, it makes perfect sense to me that it is a resource you can manage. In those kinds of stories the characters often express acute awareness of their Qi cultivation.

One of the things I often do at the start of a campaign is try to get everyone on the same page in terms of what sort of reality they believe they inhabit. This is even beyond mechanics or system because it plays into assumptions about what kinds of cunning plans will yield results and how NPCs will react to them. I find a lot of disagreements over the kinds of things we are discussing here, often come down to people having different expectations (for example you may be expecting a reality more based on movie logic and Lord Mhoram might have more of a gritty reality in mind---even if the world happens to have magic as part of that reality). Even if you are going for cinematic, there is a universe of difference between say Back-to-the-Future and a Few Good Men. Doc Browns schemes are probably going to fail miserably in the reality of A Few Good Men.
 

Lord Mhoram might have more of a gritty reality in mind---even if the world happens to have magic as part of that reality).


Grand high fantasy, Wuxia, four color/modern superheroes actually. ;)

But agreed discussion of tone can really iron things out before hand. And older Champions book had a little worksheet with like 10 questions/sliders, and you would set them, so everyone knows what to expect.
I'm a "system matters" kind of guy - the same character in Pathfinder, Fantasy Age, and WFRP even if built to be the same thing would play very differently in each system.
 
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Here's a paradox for you:

Some tables and some systems grant XP (or similar benefits) for roleplaying.

You get a roleplaying award when you dramatically acting out your character.

But a player choosing to dramatically act out his/her character is, necessarily, not making a decision from the perspective of his/her PC.

Hence, such a player is not roleplaying, and hence is never eligible for the roleplaying award.

Hence, roleplaying awards can never be earned.
It depends what you mean by 'dramatically', which is not as defined of a term. If it's specifically in order to build narrative tension, then the so-called logical paradox is just a case of the award being named incorrectly. A roleplaying award, if it exists, should be awarded for roleplaying.

Many games do actually give a bonus for staying in-character, or (more commonly) a penalty for acting out-of-character. From what I recall, AD&D prevents you from earning any XP during an adventure where you violate your alignment. Which actually makes perfect sense - you can't learn anything about how to be a better paladin by committing atrocities.
 
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All in one campaign?

Once actually, yes. :lol:

I ran a fantasy game, and I love fantasy books where the hero comes from earth (Narnia, Thomas Covenant (like my board name wouldn't give that away), Time of the dark etc.) This was under hero system 4th edition - universal systems, and guidebooks for different genres. So I said "max XX defenses, Max YY CV, Max ZZ damage" - whatever the number were.

I ended up, throughout campaign, with a couple native fantasy characters, a Cyberpunk, and Old West doctor, low powered superhero, a Jedi Knight, a Pulp Chtulian investigator, and a cross between Bond and McGyvver. It ran as a single big arc "trilogy" for three years, then after a year off, another big arc for four years. It was a blast.

That is why I love universal/generic systems. The ability to do mix and match and crossovers.

Right now the wife and I are putting together a world that is apost poc game but has magic - and using elements from NEW, OLD and NOW from WOIN in it. Gonzo over the top Gamma World type - but less lethal.
 

Desh-Rae-Halra

Explorer
It depends what you mean by 'dramatically', which is not as defined of a term. If it's specifically in order to build narrative tension, then the so-called logical paradox is just a case of the award being named incorrectly. A roleplaying award, if it exists, should be awarded for roleplaying.

Many games do actually give a bonus for staying in-character, or (more commonly) a penalty for acting out-of-character. From what I recall, AD&D prevents you from earning any XP during an adventure where you violate your alignment. Which actually makes perfect sense - you can't learn anything about how to be a better paladin by committing atrocities.

Saelorn,

I am hearing your strong preference for embodying the character. I don't know if I will get pelted by stones for asking this, but have you ever tried LARP? I'm just asking as it might seem to scratch that immersion itch in a different way.

Desh-Rae-Halra
 

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