History Buffs: Time of Alexander

Andrew D. Gable · Jul 11, 2003

Well, since my acquisition of Testament, I've developed a hankering for the era of Alexander the Great. Then I could use source material for the main Testament cultures, as well as being relatively close to Oriental Adventures lands and Greece, too. However, my search turned up few maps of the areas in question (I'm looking at after his conquest of Mesopotamia, which puts us in the mid-320s BC).

I know Alexander's empire stretched across most of the Mesopotamia/Persia region. What was India looking like politically during this time? I found a map of the empire under Asoka, which is roughly the right time period. Was it pretty much like that? And I know China was in the Qin Dynasty/Warring States period, how about SE Asia? Any civs to speak of there? And what about Japan?

Heading the other direction, how about Italy? Were the Etruscans around yet? And did the Greeks still have their outposts in southern Italy, France, Spain and the like? On other lines, any reccommendations for non-fiction or historical fiction set in this time period?

Thanks.

Dr. Strangemonkey · Jul 11, 2003

Asoka's ascendency occurs after Alexander and represents a major change to the dynamics of Indian politics.

Aside from that I know very little about the Eastern politics of the period.

The Northern steppes were strangely peaceful during Alexander's conquests. Afterwards the Greek sucessors lost a lot of land very quickly since they hadn't accurately gauged the strength of the nomad threat.

The Greek descriptions of the Indian campaign seem to describe lots of very well organized medium sized kingdoms.

Agback · Jul 11, 2003

G'day

Asoka was the third generation of a family conquering business, which started out from small things just after the time of Alexander. So I am afraid that a map of his Empire is quite out of line for Alexander's time. Alexander seems to have encountered an India that was full of small to medium rajahs, and rather short of maharajs. It's sad to say, but I doubt you'll find a map, nor even much of an indication of where the kingdoms were.

Japan was inhabited in 300 BC, but I don't know much about the archaeology. There were advanced civilisations in Burma, Siam, Vietnam, and Ceylon (to which Asoka later sent missionaries). And a profusion of Hindu states in Indonesia, if memory serves.

The historical fiction for the time is The Alexander Triology, by Mary Renault. This consists of The Fire From Heaven, The Persian Boy, and The Funeral Games.

Regards,

Agback

d20Dwarf · Jul 11, 2003

History buffs got nerfed!

(Ok, so I'm about a month behind on that joke...)

CCamfield · Jul 11, 2003

One historical novel I've read in the time period that I really liked was Alexander at the World's End by Tom Holt. It's not about Alexander but an individual at the time who goes off to help found a new Greek colony city on the Black Sea coast, but ends up going along with Alexander.

At that time, the Etruscans were definitely around and had been around for several hundred years. In 338 Rome defeated the Latin league which was quite local, so they weren't a very big power yet. Around 300 (plus/minus some years) they fought two wars with the Samnites, which ended with them winning and brought the territory of their subject allies to near the Greek towns of southern Italy.

Cyronax · Jul 11, 2003

And don't forget Carthage. These phoenicians were on the anscendency to if memory serves. I think this may have been close to the nadir or their power or the beginning of a larger influence. By the time Rome and that city-state go to war decades later, they are doing quite well.

C.I.D.

johnsemlak · Jul 11, 2003

Heading the other direction, how about Italy? Were the Etruscans around yet? And did the Greeks still have their outposts in southern Italy, France, Spain and the like? On other lines, any reccommendations for non-fiction or historical fiction set in this time period?

Other good reading would be the ancient sources of Alexander: Plutarch's Life of Alexander and Arrian's Alexander biography.

A good online source of info is the Internet Ancient History Sourcebook For the Roman history around Alexander's time, check out the ancient historians Livy and Polybius.

johnsemlak · Jul 11, 2003

I'm not an expert in Indian history but I think it's important to remember that Alexander's impact on Indian history is probably vastly exagerated by the West. He never reached the heart of India, the Ganges river.

Sir Whiskers · Jul 11, 2003

Here's the best I could find on Alexander, India, and Rome:

In the spring of 329 b.c. Alexander crosses the Hindu Kush in pursuit of the Persian leader Bessus. Bessus is captured, but Alexander spends two more years subduing rebellious tribes in the area. This area is composed of the two most eastern provinces of the former Persian empire.

327 b.c., Alexander invades India.
Rome and the Samnites renew their war, which lasts until 304 b.c. Despite an initial Roman defeat in 321, the Romans win the war. This, the Second Samnite War, is followed by a Third Samnite War from 298-290 b.c.

323 b.c., Alexander dies and his empire is carved up among his generals.

319 b.c., Chadragupta Maurya reconquers northern India from the Macedonians and founds the Mauryan dynasty. This dynasty is replaced in 185 b.c. by the Shunga dynasty (which lasts until 30 b.c.)

Not much info, but I hope it helps.

Khorod · Jul 12, 2003

Heading the other direction, how about Italy? Were the Etruscans around yet? And did the Greeks still have their outposts in southern Italy, France, Spain and the like? On other lines, any reccommendations for non-fiction or historical fiction set in this time period?
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The Etruscans were failing, if not already out by this time. Rome wasn't out conquering past the penninsula for at least a few more decades, but they were active in Italy.

I always felt a slightly steam-punk version of Pergamon would be cool. It would be a great city in that it was a place of learning second to few others, second largest library next to Alexandria, but the state wasn't so powerful that it could ignore threats like Ptolemy could with his powerful army. Plus, there's great intrigue in Pergamon's ties to Athens and distant military alliance with Rome.