D&D 5E Darksun 3.0

Bitbrain · Jul 23, 2017

Eltab said:
An alternative rule for Defiling, based on the Blight spell:

Any arcane magic-user can choose to Defile when he casts another spell. If he does so, treat the Defiling as if he cast a Blight spell with a range of 30 feet, centered on himself. Every creature in the zone suffers the damage. Sum up all the HP taken by every victim of the Defiling. Add that total to the damage done by the other spell that was cast; this damage is necrotic.

Of course, the outside-the-game problem is that a Defiler falls into two categories:
(1) he doesn't hurt his allies (much) - and therefore the Defiling doesn't really have any effect on anything else. Why defile, or worry about it?
(2) Defiling is powerful, it affects both friend and foe, and his allies have to keep creating new characters because the Defiler keeps on killing them.

In the original 2e Campaign setting, only the Dragon could use defiling to harm other creatures . . . I think that this would be way too powerful for PCs.

My solution would be:

ARCANE DEFILING
Immediately before you cast a spell, you strip the surrounding environment of the capacity to support life. The radius of this effect is equal to the expended spell slot level x 10 feet (10 feet if you cast a cantrip).
All creatures within the area-of-effect have disadvantage on their next attack roll, and all plants that are not creatures---even those created by magic---immediately wither away and die.

disadvantage on first attack is easier to remember, and seems less mechanically complicated to me.

Coroc · Jul 23, 2017

Bitbrain said:
In the original 2e Campaign setting, only the Dragon could use defiling to harm other creatures . . . I think that this would be way too powerful for PCs.

My solution would be:

ARCANE DEFILING
Immediately before you cast a spell, you strip the surrounding environment of the capacity to support life. The radius of this effect is equal to the expended spell slot level x 10 feet (10 feet if you cast a cantrip).
All creatures within the area-of-effect have disadvantage on their next attack roll, and all plants that are not creatures---even those created by magic---immediately wither away and die.

disadvantage on first attack is easier to remember, and seems less mechanically complicated to me.

I am not sure about that one, I think higher level defilers would damage every life form around them be it plant or creature. Of course the only way to become one back then was to be a "fallen" preserver. I cannot confirm for sure if I remember this right,since I do not own the 2e set.

Bitbrain · Jul 23, 2017

I have a PDF of the original Campaign setting and the Wanderers Journal supplement. It specifically states that only the Dragon has the power to damage and kill animals when it defiles.
Defilers and Preservers were originally separate types of wizard.

neogod22 · Jul 23, 2017

Eltab said:
An alternative rule for Defiling, based on the Blight spell:

Any arcane magic-user can choose to Defile when he casts another spell. If he does so, treat the Defiling as if he cast a Blight spell with a range of 30 feet, centered on himself. Every creature in the zone suffers the damage. Sum up all the HP taken by every victim of the Defiling. Add that total to the damage done by the other spell that was cast; this damage is necrotic.

Of course, the outside-the-game problem is that a Defiler falls into two categories:
(1) he doesn't hurt his allies (much) - and therefore the Defiling doesn't really have any effect on anything else. Why defile, or worry about it?
(2) Defiling is powerful, it affects both friend and foe, and his allies have to keep creating new characters because the Defiler keeps on killing them.

No. The standard is adequate the way it is. If you read the campaign setting or any of the books, the reason defiling is hated is because it not only destroys plant life, but makes the land unusable. The sorcerer kings and dragon can already choose to destroy plant life instead. That's a power reserved for them (as well as granting power to Templars). Granting players the ability to damage near by creatures when casting spells will make wizards even more powerful than they already are.

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Zardnaar · Jul 23, 2017

Defiling cause damage to living beings is an epic ability for Dragons.
5E terms an epic boon for arch defilers at best.

Do people like my new defiling rules? The idea is a lack of knowledge and rush of power leads to diminishing returns.

Coroc · Jul 23, 2017

Zardnaar said:
Defiling cause damage to living beings is an epic ability for Dragons.
5E terms an epic boon for arch defilers at best.

Do people like my new defiling rules? The idea is a lack of knowledge and rush of power leads to diminishing returns.

I like your defiling rules they would be sufficient for me.

What I am still reasoning about is how to resolve the inferior weapons. Your latest take gives lower damage dice to weapons constructed from inferior materials and so only affects weapons which are usually crafted from metal. That gives weapons such as simple clubs a big knack or do you rule that a bone great club is inferior to a wooden one? How rare is wood on Athas?
Giving these inferior weapons a normal die anyway and metal nonmagic as well as magic ones a die up would hurt no one.
How would your rules e.g. classify an obsidian longsword +1 would it do 1d6+1 / 1d8+1 versatile?
Imho that's a thing to reconsider.

With 5e I believe it is much easyer to just refluff things instead of rulings.

Zardnaar · Jul 23, 2017

Coroc said:
I like your defiling rules they would be sufficient for me.

What I am still reasoning about is how to resolve the inferior weapons. Your latest take gives lower damage dice to weapons constructed from inferior materials and so only affects weapons which are usually crafted from metal. That gives weapons such as simple clubs a big knack or do you rule that a bone great club is inferior to a wooden one? How rare is wood on Athas?
Giving these inferior weapons a normal die anyway and metal nonmagic as well as magic ones a die up would hurt no one.
How would your rules e.g. classify an obsidian longsword +1 would it do 1d6+1 / 1d8+1 versatile?
Imho that's a thing to reconsider.

With 5e I believe it is much easyer to just refluff things instead of rulings.

Wood is available on athas. Off the top of my head 2E had rules for wood bone and stone weapons. Wood is a trade good sourced from Gulg.

Clubs can be made out of stone. And yes clubs and staves are better on Athas.

Reduced damage die has flow on effects to champions . Weaker wrapons ate just a thing on Athas gives a lot of incentive to go look for metal.

Or use Kreen ones. Two handed weapons tend togo out the window. 2E and even 3E had different ways to make wespons a bit more variable.

Dsrksun specific weapons like impalers were not quite as good as longswords (1d8/1d8 vs 1d8/1d12) but were good enough.

You can also buy iron tipped spears in Tyr they are expensive but Tyr has an iron mine (only one in Tyr region).

Coroc · Jul 23, 2017

Zardnaar said:
Wood is available on athas. Off the top of my head 2E had rules for wood bone and stone weapons. Wood is a trade good sourced from Gulg.

Clubs can be made out of stone. And yes clubs and staves are better on Athas.

Reduced damage die has flow on effects to champions . Weaker wrapons ate just a thing on Athas gives a lot of incentive to go look for metal.

Or use Kreen ones.

Hm, I would rule it like I described, with athas isolated it breaks nothing. You did also not say how you would rate a magical weapon made from inferior material. A magic weapon should use normal dice at least even if made from obsidian, don't you agree?

Zardnaar · Jul 23, 2017

Coroc said:
Hm, I would rule it like I described, with athas isolated it breaks nothing. You did also not say how you would rate a magical weapon made from inferior material. A magic weapon should use normal dice at least even if made from obsidian, don't you agree?

No if you use an inferior material like an obsidion sword it still would be weaker.

Magical weapons iirc did not have to use the breaking rule. A magical steel sword is still better than a stone one.

cbwjm · Jul 23, 2017

Zardnaar said:
Wood is available on athas. Off the top of my head 2E had rules for wood bone and stone weapons. Wood is a trade good sourced from Gulg.

Clubs can be made out of stone. And yes clubs and staves are better on Athas.

Reduced damage die has flow on effects to champions . Weaker wrapons ate just a thing on Athas gives a lot of incentive to go look for metal.

Or use Kreen ones. Two handed weapons tend togo out the window. 2E and even 3E had different ways to make wespons a bit more variable.

Dsrksun specific weapons like impalers were not quite as good as longswords (1d8/1d8 vs 1d8/1d12) but were good enough.

You can also buy iron tipped spears in Tyr they are expensive but Tyr has an iron mine (only one in Tyr region).

Did the other cities have specialised goods? I'm just thinking of the economics of Athas. Wood from Gulg, iron from Tyr. Did the designers give each city state a specialised trade item.