Lantan and smokepowder

cmad1977 · Jul 24, 2017

KahlessNestor said:
Well, it's also against the rules to ban a player from playing at a table (inclusion and all that), unless there's a good reason (i.e. they're breaking the rules). So just because you don't like me doesn't mean you can forbid me to play

Dredge up? There's a whole 5 paragraphs -- almost a full column -- on Lantan in SCAG. They're back, and they're even better than ever, with magi-tech now! It's hardly some FR esoterica only available by dredging the depths of Candlekeep Forum. Not to mention there's the FR wiki.

Hmmm...maybe I'll make a Halruuan and fly in on an airship. That's definitely canon! I mean, it made an appearance on the Stream of Annihilation and everything!

Since no Admin has dropped the banhammer on my idea across three AL community forums, I'm thinking my character Milady de Winter is perfectly fine for AL.

No ones said it isn't fine. Everyone's has said... roughly
'You might be denied and don't pout if you are.'

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Pauper · Jul 24, 2017

KahlessNestor said:
An AL player has the right to expect a DM to follow AL rules and not completely invalidate the whole adventure/table.

It's been asked before but not really answered so I'll ask again: what is the actual AL rule you claim the DM has to follow in this situation?

And keep in mind that 'stuff the AL admins are OK with' is not the same as an AL rule.

Since no Admin has dropped the banhammer on my idea across three AL community forums, I'm thinking my character Milady de Winter is perfectly fine for AL.

This is not the standard -- if the Admins have to specifically ban every combination of effects that aren't allowed at the table, the Admins would have no time to do anything else. This is why DMs exist, and are Empowered.

Maybe I should just stick with bog-standard archers as boring as everyone else's bog-standard archer.

And that's a problem, why? I mean, there are personality traits, faction affiliations, races, and lots of other ways to differentiate your archer from some other player's archer. Why does your character have to be the only one with a gun?

*That's* where the "entitlement" criticism comes in.

--
Pauper

KahlessNestor · Jul 24, 2017

Never said she has to be the only one with a gun. Just that I follow all the rules and some DM gets to ban it just because? That's not empowered, that's bullying.

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skerritthegreen · Jul 25, 2017

KahlessNestor said:
Since no Admin has dropped the banhammer on my idea across three AL community forums, I'm thinking my character Milady de Winter is perfectly fine for AL.

That seems like a poor argument, largely because the Admins don't weigh in on every single thing. As a general rule, reflavoring is going to vary based on your DM. For example, I might let you get away with, as I try to let that sort of thing fly as long as it doesn't break immersion. Of course, given the immersion/flavoring I would also impose suitable situational things; like you have a smoke powder gun cool, which means unlike a crossbow you can't fire it under water cause you can't light the spark to detonate it. Or I might also let you fire a (loud) shot to scare off some vermin. But again, things like that would be up to the DM at the table and you should be ready to roll with what you DM at the table does, as some DMs might not be comfortable with it. If so, its up to you to adjust accordingly.

Greg Marks
Associate Resource Manager
D&D Adventurers League.

CapnZapp · Jul 25, 2017

KahlessNestor said:
Never said she has to be the only one with a gun. Just that I follow all the rules and some DM gets to ban it just because? That's not empowered, that's bullying.

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Classic entitlement

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KahlessNestor · Jul 25, 2017

skerritthegreen said:
That seems like a poor argument, largely because the Admins don't weigh in on every single thing. As a general rule, reflavoring is going to vary based on your DM. For example, I might let you get away with, as I try to let that sort of thing fly as long as it doesn't break immersion. Of course, given the immersion/flavoring I would also impose suitable situational things; like you have a smoke powder gun cool, which means unlike a crossbow you can't fire it under water cause you can't light the spark to detonate it. Or I might also let you fire a (loud) shot to scare off some vermin. But again, things like that would be up to the DM at the table and you should be ready to roll with what you DM at the table does, as some DMs might not be comfortable with it. If so, its up to you to adjust accordingly.

Greg Marks
Associate Resource Manager
D&D Adventurers League.

Oh, I'm fine with rulings like that. I just don't understand the rationale of "I don't like it, so you can't" of so many DMs when it's something clearly established in the setting and no rules are broken.

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aramis erak · Aug 1, 2017

KahlessNestor said:
Never said she has to be the only one with a gun. Just that I follow all the rules and some DM gets to ban it just because? That's not empowered, that's bullying.

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Guns are only in the DMG. The DMG is NOT AL Legal, last I checked. Certain chapters are...

Looking in the ALPG 6.0, it reads:

The D&D Basic Rules. This PDF document is available for free on the Wizards of the Coast website. It contains all the basic rules of the game, and you can create a character with it. Additional options for characters are available in the fifth edition Player’s Handbook, the Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide, the Elemental Evil Player’s Companion, and Volo’s Guide to Monsters.

Note that character options (which include equipment) do NOT include the DMG. In fact, the only required part of the DMG is the magic items list.
(Checked in the Yawning Portal aka 6.0 version of the AL guides)
Are those items in the PHB, Volo's Guide, and/or SCAG? If not, then they are not allowed for use without specific enabler awards.

CapnZapp · Aug 2, 2017

KahlessNestor said:
So I had an idea and wondering if I can make it AL legal. I was thinking of working up a kind of "gunslinger", maybe from Lantan, maybe just a worshiper of Gond. Use a fighter chassis and just refluff crossbows. Hand crossbows = pistols. Light and heavy crossbows = rifles. Crossbow bolts = shot. Grab the crossbow expert feat. There is/was smokepowder in FR. I just haven't seen any mention of the status of Lantan since 5E.

Let's back up, shall we.

The original question was "can I make it AL legal".

Since then it has become apparent the OP meant this as "can I force AL DMs to accept this even if they don't want to?"

The answer to this question is a clear no.

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KahlessNestor · Aug 2, 2017

aramis erak said:
Guns are only in the DMG. The DMG is NOT AL Legal, last I checked. Certain chapters are...

Looking in the ALPG 6.0, it reads:

Note that character options (which include equipment) do NOT include the DMG. In fact, the only required part of the DMG is the magic items list.
(Checked in the Yawning Portal aka 6.0 version of the AL guides)
Are those items in the PHB, Volo's Guide, and/or SCAG? If not, then they are not allowed for use without specific enabler awards.

I'm not using guns from the DMG. I am using crossbows from the PHB and refluffing them as guns. Refluffing is perfectly legal. I went through this issue with a character once before when I was making my Oberyn Martel character and wanted a spear with reach (longspear, something that had been in prior editions). It is perfectly acceptable to keep the stats and mechanics and completely refluff the flavor.

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KahlessNestor · Aug 2, 2017

CapnZapp said:
Let's back up, shall we.

The original question was "can I make it AL legal".

Since then it has become apparent the OP meant this as "can I force AL DMs to accept this even if they don't want to?"

The answer to this question is a clear no.

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That was completely not the initial intent. That only became an issue when I got pushback and told "No. Just because". What am I? Four years old, where that is an acceptable answer? No, it isn't. Now it's an issue of fairness.

If a player is expected to follow all the rules (including the rules about refluffing), then there should be reciprocal respect for the rules by DMs. We tell DMs all the time they have to follow them (can't use maneuvers from the DMG like disarm, can't add encounters, etc) or don't DM AL. But for some reason, in this case, it's okay to ignore the tules "because I don't like it" regardless of the fact that the refluff in question does actually exist in the setting? Open play either follows the rules for everyone or it doesn't. That's the entire reason for open play. This isn't a case of "rulings" where DMs can differ.

And yes, I will make all the ruckus about it on the forums and in FB, etc. Because that is the place to do it. I have never made an issue at the table, even when DMs are blatantly wrong.

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Lantan and smokepowder

cmad1977

Hero

Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.

KahlessNestor

Adventurer

skerritthegreen

Explorer

CapnZapp

Legend

KahlessNestor

Adventurer

aramis erak

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CapnZapp

Legend

KahlessNestor

Adventurer

KahlessNestor

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