D&D 5E Could Mage Hand carry wand of Orcus?

plisnithus8 · Aug 22, 2017

My DM had a lich make a bargsin with my eldritch knight to retrieve the Wand of Orcus.

1. Could my character carry the wand using Mage Hand and not suffer wand's deadly effects?

2. What would happen if the Mage Hand touched the wand to the lich (it can't attack but is attack necessary for Wand to cause effects?)?

pming · Aug 22, 2017

Hiya!

If I was your DM, you would know that I have an over-reaching "rule" that blankets virtually everything in my campaign: What is the players obvious intent?

So, for #1: Great use of the spell. Intent of the player is to avoid touching the wand (smart move!

).

But when we hit #2: The intent of the player is to get all the goodies of the wand, without suffering the consequences. This, to me, reads as a form of "trying to cheat". The intent isn't to "get the wand to the lich and complete the quest/geas/task...the intent now is to "get the lich while avoiding negative drawbacks".

So, for me, I'd let 1 slide no problem, and probably award a bit of bonus XP for the player. I wouldn't let 2 slide, however. I'd rule the wand doesn't work without a physical hand wielding it.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

Lucas Blackstone · Aug 22, 2017

I think touching the wand to a non helpless enemy would qualify as an attack roll, which mage hand is not allowed to be part of.

steeldragons · Aug 22, 2017

I would say the Wand of Orcus far exceeds the weight limitations of Mage Hand..., like,...FAR...by a LOT.

So both 1 and 2 are moot.

That's a no on both counts.

LordEntrails · Aug 22, 2017

As [MENTION=92511]steeldragons[/MENTION] implies, what is the weight of the Wand? If it is more than the spell limits, then no, if it is less then yes.

As for #2, no way.

Elon Tusk · Aug 22, 2017

steeldragons said:
I would say the Wand of Orcus far exceeds the weight limitations of Mage Hand..., like,...FAR...by a LOT.

DMG p. 227: "The wand can magically change in size to better conform to the grip of its user." This doesn't seem to be a feature that needs attuning.

EDIT: On second reading, the word "user" bothers me. It uses that term before talking about attainment, but it seems unclear if you could use the wand without attuning to it.
Under Spells, it says, "While holding it, youcan use an action and expend 1 or more of its chargesto cast one of the following spells ...While attuned to the wand, Orcus or a followerblessed by him can cast each of the wand's spells using2 fewer charges." I was thinking that some powers could be used unattained, and increased if attuned, but I think it is saying specific users get those attunement ONLY if they are are attuned.

Ancalagon · Aug 22, 2017

#2 seems like a great way to give the wand to the litch....

LordEntrails · Aug 22, 2017

First, the spell Mage Hand says "The hand can’t attack, activate magic items, or carry more than 10 pounds."

Is the wand more than 10 pounds? Don't know, the DMG does not say. A wand in the PHB weights 1lb. So probably not more than 10 lbs. Changing it's shape, to me, would not change it's weight.

I don't see how you can attune to it without ever touching it. So the caster of the mage hand would not be attuned to it, and therefore could not use it's abilities since it requires attunement. And even if attuned, certainly couldn't use it through the Mage Hand (see quote above).

Second, who cares if a PC touches the Wand of Orcus? The only detrimental effect is if you attempt to attune to it. No where does the item description say anything about someone just touching it. Maybe you are thinking of the wand from a previous edition?

Relevant section of DMG; "Any creature besides Orcus that tries to attune to the wand must make..."

Elon Tusk · Aug 22, 2017

LordEntrails said:
Changing it's shape, to me, would not change it's weight.

Second, who cares if a PC touches the Wand of Orcus? The only detrimental effect is if you attempt to attune to it. No where does the item description say anything about someone just touching it. Maybe you are thinking of the wand from a previous edition?

The DMG actually says it changes its "size" not shape; to me, change size would imply changing weight.

Yes, I was remembering a previous edition of the wand - Monster Manual 1 Orcus:

LordEntrails · Aug 22, 2017

On the point of using the wand un-attuned, certainly it can be. The 7 charges of the wand can be used by anyone holding it (mage hand can not activate it, see previous post).

Otherwise someone attuned to it would not be able to cast those spells for fewer charges.

As for the protection, if you hold it, you get it, attuned or not. If the Mage Hand holds it, you do not get the benefit.

Again, if you are not going to try and attune it, no problem holding it (except for the moral implications and the wand trying to influence you).