Is 3.5 just another WoTC Shakedown?

Verdigris · Jul 23, 2003

Hey All,

Forgive me if you have all discussed this to death, but I've been out of the loop for the past several months.

My questions are these:

Is 3.5 really good enough to drop another $100 to re-buy the core rule books?

If I only buy one 3.5 book initially, should I start with the PHB or the DMG? (Keep in mind, I'll be DMing)

If I don't buy the new books, what couple of 3.5 changes should I be aware of that REALLY make the game better than 3.0?

[wincing, hoping no one pummels me visciously, speaking in a wee voice, not looking to cause dischord] Is "harm" fixed in 3.5?

How can I be sure 3.5 isn't just another WoTC shakedown?

nute · Jul 23, 2003

If you're DMing, pick up the DMG. However, if your players don't have the 3.5ed PHB, you'll need that, too. For all intents and purposes, you can keep using the 3.0 MM without too much trouble.

The Harm spell in 3.5 is still not on the fighter spell list. Broken, I tell you!

As for a shakedown, I'd say that's impossible. You don't HAVE to buy the 3.5 books if you're content with your 3.0 campaign. If the price is a serious objection, wait 2 or 3 months until someone on the message board whines about how much they hate it, WotC stole their money, and they're selling their 3.5 books. Undercut their price and get the books for half off!

~M.

Benben · Jul 23, 2003

General Answer to your questions:
Go here and read the 3.5 SRD:
http://www.wizards.com/D20/article.asp?x=srd35

After you've read it you can decide if you want the new books.

> Is 3.5 really good enough to drop another $100 to re-buy the
> core rule books?

Well you won't be paying $100 unless your local game store isn't offering any sort of deal. The deals won't last forever so decide quickly. You'll be paying anywhere from $50 to $70 for all three books.

> If I only buy one 3.5 book initially, should I start with the PHB
> or the DMG? (Keep in mind, I'll be DMing)

You can glean most of the important changes in the PHB from the SRD. The DMG got a significant face lift, as it received material from Manual of the Planes, the Epic Handbook, and few others. If you use the 3.0 DMG and other DMG sources for campaign info then it's worth it. If you only use the DMG for the XP, Poison, and Magic Item tables, then you can just print out pages from the SRd.

> If I don't buy the new books, what couple of 3.5 changes
> should I be aware of that REALLY make the game better than
> 3.0?

My top 3:
1) The spell changes to Haste, Heal, and Harm.
2) The massive alteration of the arcane spell lists.
3) The class alterations to Barbarians, Rangers, Druids, Bards, and Monks.

KDLadage · Jul 23, 2003

Forgive me if you have all discussed this to death, but I've been out of the loop for the past several months.

Welcome back. I would suggest doing a perusal of a few threads on the boards... two of these would be:

The Why hasn't anyone mentioned this yet? (3.5) thread
The Compiled 3.5 Revisions thread

I would also suggest going to teh Wizards site and checking out the updated SRD (or one of those that fellow EN Worlders are working on converting to friendlier formats).

Is 3.5 really good enough to drop another $100 to re-buy the core rule books?

I think so, but this is a subjective opinion. I would check out the data on the changes first before I plop down the cash. Also, as many have pointed out on these boards, it is possible to get teh books cheaper than that -- my own suggestion, TALON COMICS AND GAMES.

If I only buy one 3.5 book initially, should I start with the PHB or the DMG? (Keep in mind, I'll be DMing)

PHB. PHB is the rule book, after all. My second book would be the MM, then the DMG in this edition. But that is me (and I am a DM as well).

If I don't buy the new books, what couple of 3.5 changes should I be aware of that REALLY make the game better than 3.0?

This is a matter of taste and opinion and game style. I like a LOT of the changes... but look them over. No need to pay for them until you see them, as they say. And with the SRD available, there really is no excuse for not looking them over.

[wincing, hoping no one pummels me visciously, speaking in a wee voice, not looking to cause dischord] Is "harm" fixed in 3.5?

Yes.

How can I be sure 3.5 isn't just another WoTC shakedown?

I am not sure what WotC shakedown you are refering to ... so I have no clue how to answer your question on if this is another one.

JoeGKushner · Jul 23, 2003

"Is 3.5 really good enough to drop another $100 to re-buy the core rule books? "

No. The three books are about $98 with tax but are available much cheaper online.

"If I only buy one 3.5 book initially, should I start with the PHB or the DMG? (Keep in mind, I'll be DMing)"

DMG. Lots of information updated to 3.5 including Epic and Planar rules.

"If I don't buy the new books, what couple of 3.5 changes should I be aware of that REALLY make the game better than 3.0?"

Check the reference docuements in various threads both here and on WotC site.

"[wincing, hoping no one pummels me visciously, speaking in a wee voice, not looking to cause dischord] Is "harm" fixed in 3.5?"

Depends on what you thought was wrong with it in the first place.

"How can I be sure 3.5 isn't just another WoTC shakedown?"

Send $40 dollars to Joe G Kushenr for your authentic "WoTC is not shaking you down" certificate, suitible for framing purposes.

Planesdragon · Jul 23, 2003

Verdigris said:
Is 3.5 really good enough to drop another $100 to re-buy the core rule books?

No. The 3.5 SRD is for that.

If I only buy one 3.5 book initially, should I start with the PHB or the DMG? (Keep in mind, I'll be DMing)

The DMG. It's got the most new material, and the most non-OGC material--including a few tweaks to the XP award system and sample locations for the planes.

How can I be sure 3.5 isn't just another WoTC shakedown?

Don't worry, it is. Once again they're fixing arbitrary rules to "let's pretend", writing moderately clear descriptive text, and selling it as an overly-high-quality rulebook. If we don't like it, we're just going to have to keep using the books we have--though we can still get updated rules via the SRD.

FWIW, there are oodles of neat new formatting tweaks. If your $20 a pop books catch fire and you need to replace them, spend the extra $30 and get 3.5.

Emiricol · Jul 23, 2003

It is not a shakedown, because there's the SRD. IMHO, if you don't already need new books then just use the SRD. If you do need new books, buy 3.5. Despite the hoopla, for the most part I like all the changes I've discovered, and those I don't actively *like* don't really bother me.

Verdigris · Jul 24, 2003

After careful scrutiny of the sage wisdom in this thread, which implored me to make my own judgement about 3.5 using the free downloads, I did just this and I must say:

I am impressed by 3.5 -- especially the improved ranger and druid classes, which did not seemed particularly well-designed.

WoTC is at least getting my $30 for the PHB.

Thanks for the suggestions! Enword rocks.

JoeBlank · Jul 24, 2003

Kudos to Verdigris:

You asked the question that is on the minds of many when they first hear of 3.5.

You got answers, and reviewed the info available with an open mind.

Only then did you make a decision on what, if anything, to buy and use.

frankthedm · Jul 24, 2003

Wotc is playing a game of Profits or Pinkslips with their game master of hasbro. They have to show profits or games over.

items to note.

They had PLANNED 3.5 for 2005 from the start.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030705b

My work on the Monster Manual started first thing in September of 2002. I assumed design lead duties after our reorganization, and picked up where Skip Williams had left off work. Skip handled a lot of the groundwork for the Monster Manual, including the Base Attack/Grapple line entries for every creature, the collection of 3rd edition Monster Manual errata and corrections, the first draft of the How to Build a Monster material, and a number of other minor changes.

At about the time I became actively involved with the Monster Manual, we decided that the revisions should be pushed more aggressively,

No i don't have an open mind. Many changes were needed, but it does not chang te fact the 3.5 schedual speed up was profit driven.

I would be less pissy if i could by the books from hasbro without the markup of the god damned distributers. Those middlemen are why everything costs more than it should.