D&D 5E How is 5th edition in respects to magic item creation?

I'm a little surprised there's any sort of pricing guideline, at all. Without wealth/level guidelines, they don't serve much purpose. They just create this false sense that if a PC has enough cash he 'should' be able to get a magic item - and if magic items are really to be optional and the prerogative of the Empowered DM, the game should avoid creating that kind of expectation. (And, yes, a DMG guideline can create an expectation in players, it's not like they'll never see nor hear of it.)

I'm surprised there has been no Unearthed Arcana on this. I would like some better general rules on this. There is an opportunity to make something for DMsGuild for this and formulas for items and such. We played a game in 2e days searching for random beast parts and rare herbs to help a powerful mage craft an item, but we ended up killing him.

Personally, I love how 5e handles magic items.

It's more suggestions - like it was in 1e and 2e - but with some actual numbers to serve as a foundation. So you can have simple crafting and magic item shops if you really *need* them, but they're also not reducing magic items to character options or pretending there's a mathematic formula for magic items that works for all items.
The DM is free to make you quest for components that might reduce the gold or time cost. Which I dig.

XGTE? What's that?

5ed has return magic items management into the Dm hands.
It serve better the story and the feeling of the game.
In 3.5 and 4 full access to items was an extension of the character's options and the cream topping of optimization.

MoreDetonation said:

XGTE? What's that?

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Xanathar’s Guide to Everything

Xetheral said:

The biggest problem with the 5e crafting rules is that the creation cost and time required to craft an item is based on Rarity, rather than utility. A single dose of Soverign Glue, for example, is just as expensive to create as a Belt of Storm Giant Strength or a Sphere of Annihilation, because all are considered "Lengendary" Rarity.

On top of the obvious balance issues this creates, there is also a verisimilitude problem: crafting such items takes half a million gold and 54.7 person-years (at 8 hours per person per day). It is mind-boggling (and immersion wrecking) to imagine that anyone would ever have gone to that much trouble to craft Soverign Glue.

If Soverign Glue was a one-off problem, it wouldn't be a big deal. But unfortunately the item lists are replete with examples where the utility of an item does not line up with its Rarity. This means the the limitations of the Rarity-based pricing scheme are unfortunately widespread. As written in the DMG, the provided rules are basically useless at tables that prioritize balance and/or verisimilitude.

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Balance yes, verisimilitude no... I think there's more verisimilitude in irregularities, such as what is more difficult not being always what is more useful.

Jester David said:

Personally, I love how 5e handles magic items.

It's more suggestions - like it was in 1e and 2e - but with some actual numbers to serve as a foundation. So you can have simple crafting and magic item shops if you really *need* them, but they're also not reducing magic items to character options or pretending there's a mathematic formula for magic items that works for all items.
The DM is free to make you quest for components that might reduce the gold or time cost. Which I dig.

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You absolutely cannot have magic shops based on the DMG info.

That is something only someone that has never tried to make sense out of it could say, someone who willingly buys into the bluff that is "see? Here are your item creation and pricing rules"

As this very thread could have told you, had you been open to the facts, is that the so-called rules are a complete mess.

To such a degree that someone other than me called them "insane", as evidenced by the replacement price list "sane magic prices".

I don't want to argue with you. I just can't let you perpetuate perhaps the greatest bluff 5e has pulled off, making people believe it actually supports a magic item economy.

It sure as eff does not!



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CapnZapp said:

You absolutely cannot have magic shops based on the DMG info

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.
That's so weird. Because I totally, vividly remember having multiple shops that sold magic items in my game. And that worked out just fine...

And it was so much more fun and engaging than magic item shopping in Pathfinder where the players just showed up with shopping list. "Okay, we need a carton of eggs, a jug of milk, ten potions of greater healing, a swiftrunner shirt, and upgrade the wizard's bracers of defence from +2 to +4."

CapnZapp said:

That is something only someone that has never tried to make sense out of it could say, someone who willingly buys into the bluff that is "see? Here are your item creation and pricing rules"

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They were pretty much exactly what I wanted.
Loose guidelines that encourage me to make a story around magic items. A price range so I can decide how valuable or cheap an item should be.

CapnZapp said:

As this very thread could have told you, had you been open to the facts, is that the so-called rules are a complete mess.

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They look just fine to be. A big step up from 3e/Pathfinder. A nice evolution of 4e, where they just removed the levels and treadmill from the items leaving just rarity behind.

CapnZapp said:

To such a degree that someone other than me called them "insane", as evidenced by the replacement price list "sane magic prices".

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Which was fine and I'm glad he did that for his table and others who need it. But it remains totally and completely arbitrary. Those prices are one person's value judgements on the items. (They really valued combat over exploration, and priced those items higher.) I think my party has three items the author of that decided not to even price because they were "gamebreaking", and my game continues to putz along just fine.

I don't think I'd want Mike Mearls' or Jeremy Crawford's judgement calls on how valuable or powerful an item is to set the price for me.

CapnZapp said:

I don't want to argue with you. I just can't let you perpetuate perhaps the greatest bluff 5e has pulled off, making people believe it actually supports a magic item economy.

It sure as eff does not!

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"Magic item economy" makes as much sense as "antique heirloom economy" or "historical artifact economy".

Magical item economy makes sense for a single campaign setting (Eberron) which was created and inspired as much by a single instance of the rules as it's fiction source material. I don't think every campaign setting and version of the rules needs Eberron style magical crating. That seems more like something you add as a variant rule for Eberron. Or work around through magewright NPC statblocks who can just create common magical items faster and cheaper.

The worst thing that could happen to 5e (IMHO) is that they would publish some exact recipies for magic weapons crafting.
Other than occasional potions and scrolls, magic items are not the product of PC craftings. Magic items are the product of PC adventuring!

You want a +1 sword, the recipe is: hunt down the infamous devil-bugbear Captain Viscous. He wields a sword that is said to cut through armor like a hot knife through butter.

You don't get a Rod of Blasting by talking about spending downtime in a quiet setting taking your time casting spells in peace. Besides, I'm a believer that the PCs don't get much downtime. If they don't look for adventure, adventure looks for them.


Also, gold piece value of magic items is there for *relative comparison* not market-value. gp value is there to help determine if the staff of the magi you gave out fits within the general guidelines of the rest of your treasure levels, not so that the PCs can sell it to some magic pawn-shop. "At my magic shop, family comes first, and money comes second, depending on who ya ask. But the best part: You never know what's gonna come through that door. "