3.5 PHB Impressions

satori01

First Post
I just got my 3.5 books and skimmed the players handbooks, a couple of thoughts jump out at me:

1) I generally like the class redos Barb is nice, the Monk is Fantastic with the easy BAB calculations, the Bard is getting there, and the ranger is niiiccee. The Paly might need a little bit of encouragement but I can wait to 4e, and the druid will probably be reworked in my new campaign, wildshape is a little problematic for me.

2) Shields why did they have to mess w/ shields? Before shields used to add 2 to your AC, bash for 1d4 dmg, spike for 1d6, and were considered a light weapon.

Now you have Light shields that add 1 to ac, do 1d3 dmg, spike to 1d4 and are considered light weapons or

"Heavy" shields that add 2 to ac and have the old spike and bash statistics but are considered one handed weapons for twf.

Bleh, talk about mudding the issue.
Sure under 3.5 rules IMPshield bash is core, meaning a sword and boarder with twf and improved shield bash and a spiked shield will have 2pts of ac and do 1d6 dmg= 1 more ac point than a twf w/ the two weapon defense feat.
So what, that one ac is not going to break the bank, but shields are even more divided now, no more plain +2 shields anymore.


3) I wish WOTC had either highlighted the changes on the pages, or added a change primer index in either the front or back of the PHB. Come on this is a revision, I dont want to have to reread the whole book, frankly enough of the text is similar enough that my brain started boogling, especially during the spells.

Do me a favor WOTC and spell out the changes lest I miss some.

4) I found the diagrams in the combat section to be less informative than the old 3.0 ones, and disliked how they were spread out in sections where the diagram did not pertain to the rules on the page, often times with a diagram of a particular rule preceding the rules themselves.

5) cover being a straight +4 to ac, kinda like for the simplification, kinda dont, leaning more towards like. Grappling !!!! I read and understood easily. I dont like the squeezing rules, nor the calculations for diagonal movement, squeezing seems to make large creatures much easier to defeat.

6) Dragon DR, I know this isnt PHB related but come on DR/Magic, you might as well remove DR from Dragons all together, who isnt going to have a magic weapon when facing a Dragon. Give them adamantium or something else but magic please!

7) Overall the rules are going to be harder to explain to newer players. I foresee some problems concerning the weapon sizes and shield sizes and encumbrance calculations and people retaining and understanding them. I like what those rule changes are trying to do, but as my next campaign is going to have 3-5 players completely new to D&D I see a little longer of a learning curve than 3.0.
 
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Belphanior

First Post
2) Shields why did they have to mess w/ shields? Before shields used to add 2 to your AC, bash for 1d4 dmg, spike for 1d6, and were considered a light weapon.

2 points? Did you never use bucklers or small shields? And in AD&D2 shields only added 1 point. Are you refering to some really archaic edition I am not familiar with?


3) I wish WOTC had either highlighted the changes on the pages, or added a change primer index in either the front or back of the PHB. Come on this is a revision, I dont want to have to reread the whole book, frankly enough of the text is similar enough that my brain started boogling, especially during the spells.
Do me a favor WOTC and spell out the changes lest I miss some.

Why would they waste pages on something that is of no use to new players?
Isn't there a conversion manual that covers your needs?


4) I found the diagrams in the combat section to be less informative than the old 3.0 ones, and disliked how they were spread out in sections where the diagram did not pertain to the rules on the page, often times with a diagram of a particular rule preceding the rules themselves.

I thought they were more informative. *shrug*

5) cover being a straight +4 to ac, kinda like for the simplification, kinda dont, leaning more towards like. Grappling !!!! I read and understood easily. I dont like the squeezing rules, nor the calculations for diagonal movement, squeezing seems to make large creatures much easier to defeat.

If you turn the page, you'll see that significantly different amounts of cover still give different bonuses. It's just more of a "DM's judgement" case.
Squeezing is fantastic. I always wondered what would happen if a big creature wanted to squeeze through a narrow space. Now I know. I don't see how it makes big creatures easy to defeat though. They are smart enough to stay out of tiny narrow spaces. But when they do, they are at a disadvantage. Makes perfect sense.

6) Dragon DR, I know this isnt PHB related but come on DR/Magic, you might as well remove DR from Dragons all together, who isnt going to have a magic weapon when facing a Dragon. Give them adamantium or something else but magic please!

Dragon DR was always a joke compared to their CRs. So just let them cast stoneskin or something.

7) Overall the rules are going to be harder to explain to newer players. I foresee some problems concerning the weapon sizes and shield sizes and encumbrance calculations and people retaining and understanding them. I like what those rule changes are trying to do, but as my next campaign is going to have 3-5 players completely new to D&D I see a little longer of a learning curve than 3.0.

Weapon sizes are only problematic if you're clinging to 3.0 terminology. New players will be able to pick it up just fine I think.
 
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satori01

First Post
Re: Re: 3.5 PHB Impressions

Belphanior said:


2 points? Did you never use bucklers or small shields? And in AD&D2 shields only added 1 point. Are you refering to some really archaic edition I am not familiar with?

I should have said specificaly large shields, my mistake.

[/B][/QUOTE]
Why would they waste pages on something that is of no use to new players?
Isn't there a conversion manual that covers your needs? [/B][/QUOTE]

If there is good old Barnes and Nobles didnt send one. The point being that the initial release of 3.5 could like the initial release of 3.0 include some additional pages to facilitate use,(like monster write ups in 3.0), helping out your customer isnt a waste, or at least shouldnt be considered one.






[/B][/QUOTE]
If you turn the page, you'll see that significantly different amounts of cover still give different bonuses. It's just more of a "DM's judgement" case. [/B][/QUOTE]

As i said I was leaning more towards like.

[/B][/QUOTE]Squeezing is fantastic. I always wondered what would happen if a big creature wanted to squeeze through a narrow space. Now I know. I don't see how it makes big creatures easy to defeat though. They are smart enough to stay out of tiny narrow spaces. But when they do, they are at a disadvantage. Makes perfect sense. [/B][/QUOTE]

It makes sense but I can see creative wall use squeezing large monsters quite a bit. It also tends to cut down on the Ogre in the underdark notion, frankly if I was a large creature no way in hell would I be anywhere near a tight space. Realistic, sure you probably wont see Shaquille O'neil in a Mini Cooper or a really tight elevator, but in terms of monster ecology it can play havoc if realism is what you are going for.




[/B][/QUOTE]Weapon sizes are only problematic if you're clinging to 3.0 terminology. New players will be able to pick it up just fine I think. [/B][/QUOTE]

The Weapon Chart made some newbies that I showed the book to eyes pop out. Weapon size, while I like it, simply adds extra memorazation or look up complications. Is it unsurmontable? No, but it can be intimidating, especially when the 3.0 experts might be a bit confused by it as well since naturaly perhaps they are clinging to 3.0 terminology.
 
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Ferret

Explorer
I am seriously not into the weapons handedness. What if my small character was weilding a medium short sword? Do I go to a small longsword? The flavour doesn't work, or with a normal medium shortsword? I was I at heart wanting to do 1d4 vdamage with a small sword. I really don't like it. I understood clearer then crystal, polished with redgar brand crystal polish, the large, small and medium weapon sizes:(
 


Viktyr Gehrig

First Post
Ferret said:
I am seriously not into the weapons handedness. What if my small character was weilding a medium short sword? Do I go to a small longsword? The flavour doesn't work, or with a normal medium shortsword? I was I at heart wanting to do 1d4 vdamage with a small sword. I really don't like it. I understood clearer then crystal, polished with redgar brand crystal polish, the large, small and medium weapon sizes:(

If he finds a Medium Short Sword, it's a One-Handed Weapon that does 1d6 and he takes a -2 penalty to attack with it.

If you want to do 1d4 with a small sword, use a Small Short Sword, which will also be light for your character.
 

coyote6

Adventurer
Re: Re: 3.5 PHB Impressions

Belphanior said:
Why would they waste pages on something that is of no use to new players?
Isn't there a conversion manual that covers your needs?

Nope; that's not what the conversion manual is mostly about. It covers some of the changes -- almost entirely changes in feat/spell names, changes in spell levels, and new spells. But it doesn't list changes in the spells effects, changes to combat rules, etc.

Mainly what it does is convert critters from other 3.0e WotC books to 3.5e format.

IMO, not much thought was given to existing players with 3.5e; the changes were all about the new players. If old players are confused, oh well.

Belphanior said:
If you turn the page, you'll see that significantly different amounts of cover still give different bonuses. It's just more of a "DM's judgement" case.

This, IMO, was a dumb change. They "simiplified" cover to just one type, so no more "confusing" tables of levels of cover. Except that the different levels of cover are, in fact, still existent; they just aren't spelled out as clearly, and there are apparently no handy charts that list them. Uh...
 

Vocenoctum

First Post
Korimyr the Rat said:


If he finds a Medium Short Sword, it's a One-Handed Weapon that does 1d6 and he takes a -2 penalty to attack with it.

If you want to do 1d4 with a small sword, use a Small Short Sword, which will also be light for your character.

In addition, a small character now has a variety of light weapons, instead of just "dagger".
If your halfling ranger wants an off hand axe, they exist now. Enjoy!
(I know I will. :)
 

Psiblade

First Post
On the boards at WOTC, they posted that the Dragon's DR does not add to thier CR. Dragons get thier CR from thier AC, Hit points, and of course spells / breath weapons etc. If you increase the DR, then you should be careful about the CR. Otherwise, your players could have a bad day.


-Psiblade
 

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