D&D 5E Complete Revision of PHB Feats (wiki thread)

clearstream · Sep 19, 2017

Istbor said:
Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I like the +1 of your choice. What harm would it bring? You are still only getting a +1, and it will support a wider range of builds an concepts. Both the superstitious Barbarian that wants to smash all wizards, and the sly bard who eats casters for breakfast.

Something to think about is whether all of the +1 (Half ASI) feats shouldn't be to any ability score? My first-pass thinking was that there should be essentially four categories

1) Full ASI feats - no stat bump
2) Half ASI martial feats - stat bump to physical stats (Str, Dex, Con)
3) Half ASI caster feats - stat bump to mental stats (Int, Wis, Cha)
4) Basic feats - stat bump to any stat

That lets us make the basic feats a bit easier to take than the others, because whatever stat you want bumped you can attack a basic feat to it. Martial feats become less likely to appear on casters, because you have to want a physical stat increase. Caster feats become less likely to appear on martials, because you have to want a mental stat increase. Of course, the classes are not so neatly divided. A Bard or Paladin might want to fix an odd Charisma score. A Cleric or Druid might be looking for some Constitution. I think that's why Resilient in my survey is the second most picked feat! So should it be just two classes of feat

1) Full ASI feats - no stat bump
2) Half ASI and Basic feats - bump to any stat

clearstream · Sep 19, 2017

DeJoker said:
I would limit it to Dexterity as the whole concept is that you are reacting fast enough to attacking someone casting a spell

Well, it's really to do with how the feat is gated. If it were only Dexterity then that makes the feat less appealing to every character for whom +1 Dexterity is not really useful. That's why I extended the stat bump to groups of three options. To broaden the times when a feat can be taken.

clearstream · Sep 19, 2017

Cap'n Kobold said:
How about proficiency in a saving throw rather than a +1 to an ability? Seems to fit better.

Fascinating idea, and not one that we should think about in the context of a single feat. Could we offer a saving throw on a range of feats instead of a stat bump? Would that improve the way they are gated?

Do you see what I mean? If we chose one save and put it on Mage Slayer, then anyone who already has proficiency with that save is less likely to take Mage Slayer. Which we don't really want. We could put them in groups of three: which starts to become interesting. But what if we had three categories

1) Full ASI feats - no stat or save bump
2) Half ASI feats - bump to any stat
3) Half ASI feats - bumpt to any save

or alternatively we draw a distinction between Caster and Martial Half ASI feats

2) Martial feats - bump to choice of Strength, Dexterity or Constitution ability score OR saving throw
3) Caster feats - bump to choice of Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma ability score OR saving throw

or even

2) Martial feats - bump to choice of Strength, Dexterity or Constitution ability score OR Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma saving throw
3) Caster feats - bump to choice of Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma ability score OR Strength, Dexterity or Constitution saving throw

Cap'n Kobold · Sep 19, 2017

vonklaude said:
Fascinating idea, and not one that we should think about in the context of a single feat. Could we offer a saving throw on a range of feats instead of a stat bump? Would that improve the way they are gated?

I was suggesting the save proficiency rather than stat bonus specifically for the Mage Slayer feat, because it seems to be about combating spell users.

Do you see what I mean? If we chose one save and put it on Mage Slayer, then anyone who already has proficiency with that save is less likely to take Mage Slayer.

They get to pick which save they're gaining prof in. I'm not suggesting limiting it to a single choice.

DeJoker · Sep 19, 2017

vonklaude said:
1) Full ASI feats - no stat bump
2) Half ASI martial feats - stat bump to physical stats (Str, Dex, Con)
3) Half ASI caster feats - stat bump to mental stats (Int, Wis, Cha)
4) Basic feats - stat bump to any stat

This grouping looks pretty interesting and intuitive.

As for Saving Throw Bonuses in a Feat -- is there a precedence for that ? I am not recalling any bonuses to a saving throw beyond gaining a proficiency to a saving throw.

clearstream · Sep 20, 2017

Cap'n Kobold said:
I was suggesting the save proficiency rather than stat bonus specifically for the Mage Slayer feat, because it seems to be about combating spell users.

They get to pick which save they're gaining prof in. I'm not suggesting limiting it to a single choice.

Got it. That seems really nice. I'll make the tweak.

clearstream · Sep 22, 2017

So how do these two proposed tweaks look?

Elemental Adept works with instead of against Empowered Spell—supports Sorcerer
Prerequisite: The ability to cast at least one spell
When you gain this feat, choose one of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder. Spells you cast ignore resistance to damage of the chosen type. In addition, when you roll damage for a spell you cast that deals damage of that type, increase the damage by one for each die that comes up maximum.
You can select this feat multiple times. Each time you do so, you must choose a different damage type.

Mage Slayer adds a saving throw increase, increases feat reach, allows any weapon attack—taken 0/240 picks
Choose one ability; you gain proficiency in saving throws using the chosen ability.
When a creature within 10 feet of you casts a spell, you can use your reaction to move up to 5 feet and make a melee weapon attack against that creature. When you damage a creature that is concentrating on a spell, that creature has disadvantage on the saving throw it makes to maintain its concentration. You have advantage on saving throws against spells cast by creatures within 10 feet of you.

DeJoker · Sep 22, 2017

Can you explain what you mean by it works with Empowered Spell or denote what it was you changed within Elemental Adept. Denoting what you changed in anything you change with say red text would be very helpful in analyzing said changes

Not understanding the intent of "Choose one ability; you gain proficiency in saving throws using the chosen ability." and what do you mean by Ability ?? Attribute or Skill or Both

Considering you are only able to take a 5 foot step I think this "spells cast by creatures within 10 feet of you" ought to be reduced to 5 feet instead of the listed 10 feet or please explain why they get this ability outside the 5 foot range?

clearstream · Sep 22, 2017

DeJoker said:
Can you explain what you mean by it works with Empowered Spell or denote what it was you changed within Elemental Adept. Denoting what you changed in anything you change with say red text would be very helpful in analyzing said changes

Say you are a Sorcerer with 18 Charisma rolling 8d6 for your Fireball. Empowered Spell lets you pick up four dice and reroll them, so you want to pick up your 1-3s, right? Increasing the value of each to 3.5 (the average of the reroll).

Elemental Adept on the other hand is treating 1s as 2s, increasing the value of each 1 to 2. You can see the conflict?

DeJoker said:
Not understanding the intent of "Choose one ability; you gain proficiency in saving throws using the chosen ability." and what do you mean by Ability ?? Attribute or Skill or Both

Considering you are only able to take a 5 foot step I think this "spells cast by creatures within 10 feet of you" ought to be reduced to 5 feet instead of the listed 10 feet or please explain why they get this ability outside the 5 foot range?

Apologies, I ninja-edited that out. It was nice, but didn't salvage the feat along the right lines. Please re-check Mage Slayer in http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?585873-Refined-PHB-feat-revisions

D&D 5E Complete Revision of PHB Feats (wiki thread)

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