[FFD20] Let's Mass our Forces, and Rebuild our Power

As you wish, I'll just continue work on my own thing then. But, I'll let you know how I set up some of the jobs.

I split most of the jobs into 3 kinds: Basic, Advanced and Prestige. The advanced ones were the simple types that built off of the other basic classes, and prestige are more powerful jobs like paladin. Fighter was a basic class that had most of the simple combat actions, could use a few different weapons, and had stuff like the FFT break skills. The Knight was an advanced class that was patterned after the FFT specialty classes like Holy Knight and such.

Other advanced jobs include the Dragoon (from Fighter focused on spears), Red Mage (requires white and black magic and some martial capacity), Time Mage (some low level time magic is also black/white magic, learning those are the prereqs). Mystic Knight would be one, but I found myself combing its role with the red mage. Blue Mage was an advanced class as well, but had trouble figuring what classes would lead up to it. Hunter, maybe.

Oh and chemists can be fun, give them item creation, mixes, and bombs. And they can lead into engineers, if you want to use that level of tech.

Hi, creamsteak:

First, I hope you had a blast at Gen Con and that you are doing well!

Secondly, I should tell you that I am not very familiar with Final Fantasy. However, if you need a proofreader for the project, I can lend a hand.

Also, here are a few ideas.

Chemist -- If this is an expert of a sorts, do not forget the ability to make alchemical items from the D&D player's handbook. Vials of acid, thunderstones, and the like might come in handy. Also, perhaps such a class would gain item creation feats. A possible template to look at in creating such a class would be the Gnome Artificer in the Magic of Faerun book. Engineering is also a very useful skill. An engineer who works on cannons might be useful, as well as one who can maybe design stuff to make money. (A mechanical reaper and better plows for farming may not be glamorous but they can help someone who wants to help grow food in their country. Remember, a D20 game is often a long running campaign.) Other options include having "trick" arrows that do different things. Think of some of the stuff that has been used in DC comics by Green Arrow. An arrow with an explosive tip might be a coveted item. (A chemist who is good at making trick arrows might really be a good complement for a group with an archer.)

Do look into a few things that were done with engineering in the Middle Ages and earlier. Greek fire, experiments with steam engines, even polished mirrors that Archimedes used to reflect sunlight to set ships on fire, and even primitive batteries are possible ideas for an engineer.

Paladin -- In the General RPG Discussion thread, there is a thread by SHARK, "Is the Paladin Too Weak?" Perhaps some of the suggestions there, to add feats and abilities, might help you in constructing a Final Fantasy Paladin.

Some key questions in game design are to ask what role a class can play in a group, its strength and weaknesses, and how it complements other classes.

Bard -- I have never really been impressed with D&D's handling of bards. Bards in Celtic myth and legend could sing songs that could make crowds laugh, weep, or fall asleep. Their satire could make a king unpopular. So, these are possibilities. Another is monster summoning through song. In Andre Norton's Quag Keep, similar to the much later Keepers of the Flame, a group of gamers is taken from our world to a version of Greyhawk. (This book, I think came out circa 1978-1980, so it has none of the GH deities of the PHB.) A bard used a song to summon a winged monster, a roc perhaps, to carry the party to a distant land. (It was a pretty good book. By the way, the heroes also included a barbarian who could shapechange into a wereboar.)

Thief -- Make sure that continuing as a thief might be as attractive to some players as becoming a ninja.

Creamsteak, feel free to bounce ideas off of me. While I am not familiar with FF, I have read a lot on history, myth, legend, and tons of novels.

Personally I think what this project needs is a little organization. First assign different people to different areas and then put together a website. I'd be interested in helping with the classes part. I feel most of the "classes" should just be PrC's but with low level requirements. Like the knight for example....could be a PrC from fighter...not a core class itself.

William Ronald: Yep, I'm behind you on the ninja thing.

redwing said:

Personally I think what this project needs is a little organization. First assign different people to different areas and then put together a website. I'd be interested in helping with the classes part. I feel most of the "classes" should just be PrC's but with low level requirements. Like the knight for example....could be a PrC from fighter...not a core class itself.

Click to expand...

That's how I felt in the version 0.1 (download it from 8-bit theatre, the second link, my sites down due to bandwidth use). Problem is that it's just not as much fun in play. Of course, starting as a fighter would eleviate the huge issue I had when trying to play (Nobody was even remotely interested in thier first class, it was all about what's coming up later)... but really I think 20 level classes work better. I'd rather have multiclassed characters of higher levels than characters with 6 prestige classes. Another thing that swayed me to 'core classes' was thinking about FF4 and FF6, where characters had classes, but they were somewhat advanced at times. Tellah, for instance, makes Sage seem like a Prestige class for a Black Mage/White Mage, but he was still trained in his original two classes. Rydia seems like a Summoner/Black Mage/White Mage that sacrificed white magic later on to increase her summoner level... all core class like and not PrC related...

There are classes I feel should be PrCs, just not the majority...

Another suggestion could be the "Soldier" Class. It could have such abilities as the Limit Break and maybe a permanant Strengthe and Dex boost, since the usual soldier is dipped in Mako to become stronger.

Multi and Prc ing

(Sorry, about adding a string, but it is my first time to add to a forum. )

Another suggestion is to go the D20 Modern route, have 6 basic classes ( "Fast hero, Strong Hero, Tough Hero, etc...") and go from there, Most of the time a red mage is a red mage, not a lv 20 character with 9 levels of black and white mage, and 2 lvs of fighter. The basic class idea is there so you could have a basic type, for example, Cecil would be a cross between Strong hero, and Dedicated hero. What do you think?

D20 modern fits if your looking at FF6 and later, where heroes were not arbitrarily classed... but that's not what I'm going for.

I think you're right about the organization thing, we should have certain people delegated for certain tasks.
i.e. Monster stats, class skills. Item statistics etc. etc.

Races

Heres something to consider; what races will there be for a playable FFD20? Would the standard PHB races be allowed? What about the Fae'run races. And is the Moogle a playable race? Second, would we imply a favored class for the races?

Chemists, the nature of Classes, and MP

I'd really like to see Chemists as a useful class. When I tried to do this on my own I ended up making them spell-casters for a while, using most of the "utility" spells for their list. Detect spells, Mage Hand, the one that destroys magic items, Levitate. The ilk that deals less with blowing the crap out of stuff and more with manipulating the world around them in useful, and sometimes subtle, ways.

An alternative might be to give them a list of spell-like abilities we assume they perform with alchemical potions and a little medival science. Maybe not a lot of stuff, but some.

Also, I think Chemists should have item creation feats even without the spell pre-requisites for making items. Perhaps require more expensive materials or higher levels than a normal spell caster would have.

I think Knight should be the "core" warrior class, if only in name. Perhaps a class called Solider (or hey, even figher) would be better. Modern d20 has "Technique Paths" for characters to take. For example, a character can get damage bonuses and take abilities that are not unlike feats building on those bonuses. Why not make a warrior class with different paths? Say, Sword Break on one path, Dueling on another, Smashing Things to Bits (I'm not always creative with names) as another. Archers could theretically stem from this class as well with a bow-related tech tree. I've been working on a d20 set of rules for EarthBound and have found the Tech Tree idea working wonders for balancing classes.

Of course then we have the question of where does a core class end and prestige class begin? We have to say something like "Knight Core, Paladin Prestige." Or "Paladin is just a high-leveled Knight." Again, this is where branches become important.

D&D spell casting is all right and all but I think some changes may need to be made for a Final Fantasy setting. I had made a mock-up system using MP. Each spell slot counted as a number of MP equal to the level. Eg. 3rd Level Slot=3 MP. A 3rd level spell cost 3 MP to cast, as the logic follows (0th level counted as 1/2 MP.) This option might also allow someone to multi-class as a Black and White Mage and still retain a high overall MP, though a reduced repitoire of spells. One wonders, then, why not just be a Red Mage?

I'm just kind of rambling at this point and hoping you guys'll find something useful in all of it.

-Karl