D&D 5E What else to I need to consider for a 5e realism hard mode?

Flexor the Mighty! · Sep 19, 2017

Ancalagon said:
Honestly? Use warhammer frpg 2nd ed.

Very easy to get right now too!

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/warhammer-rpg-books

I ran games with this system for years. Much grittier and realistic, easier to run as a GM too.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using EN World mobile app

Yep. Or if you really want to get "realistic" track down Harnmaster.

Hackmaster 5e is another option, though not sure its "realistic". Wounds are tracked individually is one interesting thing. Heal spells work on individual wounds rather than the HP pile. You only get a new HP roll every other level, but you can re-roll your HP roll from the last level on even levels. Is the game I think I'm going to run once the 5e campaign ends.

snickersnax · Sep 20, 2017

Ancalagon said:
Honestly? Use warhammer frpg 2nd ed.

Very easy to get right now too!

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/warhammer-rpg-books

I ran games with this system for years. Much grittier and realistic, easier to run as a GM too.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using EN World mobile app

Flexor the Mighty! said:
Yep. Or if you really want to get "realistic" track down Harnmaster.

Hackmaster 5e is another option, though not sure its "realistic". Wounds are tracked individually is one interesting thing. Heal spells work on individual wounds rather than the HP pile. You only get a new HP roll every other level, but you can re-roll your HP roll from the last level on even levels. Is the game I think I'm going to run once the 5e campaign ends.

Thanks for these tips, I'm mostly unfamiliar with them, but I'll take a look

Ancalagon · Sep 20, 2017

snickersnax said:
Thanks for these tips, I'm mostly unfamiliar with them, but I'll take a look

I should say why I recommended warhammer

1: Spellcasters are rare, and fairly narrowly focused. If you are a fire mage, you're a fire mage. A spell-caster usually knows 10-20 spells, top - no more swiss-army-knife caster that solves 2/3 of every problems! Magic can fail, and may backfire.

2: Heroes don't get tons of HP, they get better at avoiding damage. A "low level" character has maybe 10 wounds (ie, HP). A "high level" champion has about 20 - but he's much better at parrying etc

3: Combat is always dangerous. Although it is unlikely if you are "high level", *any* attack could kill you. Ranged fire is very dangerous (can you parry an arrow? nope) but the range is limited so melee characters can rush you.

4: Healing is slow. Dismemberment is rare but possible.

5: The setting itself is pretty gritty, although you can use the system in another setting if you don't want to use it.

6: With that link I sent you, you can get the rules dirt cheap right now.

dave2008 · Sep 20, 2017

snickersnax said:
Wow, I was unaware of E6, sounds like just the kind of thing I was looking for. Thanks!!!!

Someone on these forums (or maybe it was Reddit UA forum) already did something like that for 5e, except they capped it at level 10 and then they adjusted the classes so that the class features, all 1-20 of them, were reorganized to fit within 10 levels. This allows the PCs to get to use all of their toys, but helps keep spells, # of attacks, HD, HP, etc. more manageable.

I've thought about doing this in a future campaign. With less HP and ability to damage it makes the CR15-25 monsters more usable.

Greg Benage · Sep 20, 2017

Sacrosanct said:
I'm not sure how BM maneuvers would work if you don't use dice. But if you want hard mode, I'd bring back elements from 1e. Saving throws for things like petrification are one and done. No "make another one the next round to see if you recover" stuff. And if you fail a poison or hold person save, you are poisoned/held for the duration, no retrying again every round. And finally, I'd impart saving throws for items like there was in AD&D. Acid and dragon breath is a lot more scary when it also destroys all of your gear...

I second this with feeling. Most efforts of this kind focus on the player/character side. I feel the Monster Manual is the biggest culprit, and sadly, also much more work to retune.

bid · Sep 20, 2017

Krachek said:
Use point buy : 23 points.
Or use 8,9,10,11,12,13 as starting stats.
ASI can only increase two different stats by one.
Otherwsie you are building a bran new game.

Stat inflation is a biggy. Who cares if your 5 ASI can give +5 to 2 stats when you start with 12-14 for your best stat?

Or have them build a routine to improve their stats. If by level 12 they do 100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups, 100 squats and run 10km every day, give them their Str16.

CapnZapp · Sep 20, 2017

Yikes, that *is* hardcore

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dave2008 · Sep 20, 2017

Greg Benage said:
I second this with feeling. Most efforts of this kind focus on the player/character side. I feel the Monster Manual is the biggest culprit, and sadly, also much more work to retune.

IMHO, monsters are so much easier to tune as you say. There are lots of easy ways to make them tougher. Many you can do on the fly.

dave2008 · Sep 20, 2017

bid said:
Or have them build a routine to improve their stats. If by level 12 they do 100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups, 100 squats and run 10km every day, give them their Str16.

Nice Saitama reference

Lanefan · Sep 20, 2017

snickersnax said:
I did also forget to mention that also was hoping to solve 1st and 2nd level character frailness

I'd rather find a way to keep 'em that frail all the way through.

More seriously, your list in post 1 might be overkill. Some things I'd look at, mostly stolen from 1e, are:

- have PC hit point accrual slow down dramatically at about 10th level by halving the die roll (so Fighters roll d5, Clerics d4, Rogues d3 etc.) and having Con bonus not apply to these half-die rolls
- bring back level drain
- let 'em have reasonably good stats to start with (intentionally high array or generous rolling system) then do away with ASIs completely
- make magic riskier - teleport errors, greater chance of interruption during casting with sometimes-painful consequences, etc., and see next line:
- bring back item saves (someone already mentioned this) but also make magic unstable enough that if an enchanted item breaks bad things or weird things or whatever can happen
- get rid of all ranged healing and make touch-healing during combat risky enough that people will think twice before doing it, to put an end to whack-a-mole combats
- harshly cut back on healing via rests, and if this means they need a full-time healer in the party so be it
- and if all of this plus your other changes make one or more classes no longer viable, be prepared to drop 'em.

Lanefan

D&D 5E What else to I need to consider for a 5e realism hard mode?

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