Creature Catalog 3.5 Overhaul Project
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    BOZ land

    Creature Catalog 3.5 Overhaul Project

    Welcome to the Creature Catalog 3.5 Revision Overhaul project! This is an ambitious little task that will eventually culminate with the result of “upgrading” all of the critters in the CC from 3.0 stats to 3.5 stats! This may not be a particularly difficult task, but it will require some time; this is where you come in! What is your prize for volunteering this time and effort? Well, taking pride in getting something accomplished, that’s what!

    We will be upgrading these monsters, one by one, until they are all compliant with the new rules. Help for this effort will be accepted from all interested parties – this thread will eventually become massive and monstrous, and I advise you to bookmark it. When we start on a new monster, I will post the monster’s stat block as it is now, then add my advice on how to proceed with it, including some updates for the stat block. Then, you will add whatever input you may have on what should be done with it. I will also be posting a “working copy” of the monster in this thread, so you should definitely keep an eye on that thread to stay current with what we are discussing here.

    Here are the rules: We will do monsters one at a time, in batches of 10 or less. What this means is that we will select which ones to be done in the immediate future, fix all of them up, and when I am satisfied with them they will be added to the Creature Catalog all at the same time. Since you are the fans, and you are helping me out, you will get to choose which ones we work on first. When I say go, you pick one or two monsters (unless I say otherwise) that you want us to work on. Similar monsters can be chosen in batches, but ONLY if those batches are three or less (we will get to the bigger ones later). The aspis, for example, comes in three varieties and would be an acceptable batch.

    I, being the moderator in charge, will be the final arbiter of what we will work on and what will wait till later, as well as what changes will make it into the final version of a monster. This thread will be more heavily moderated than other threads on the CC forums. If you choose more than two monsters, or otherwise do something that impedes the process, I will edit your post. I will also be editing or deleting posts to clear clutter, and removing repeated information. This is to keep things running smoothly. However, I do encourage chat relating to what we’re doing; I want this to be more fun than work (if possible, heh)!

    So, look through the next two posts, and you should be up to speed on what we’re doing.
    Last edited by BOZ; Friday, 12th September, 2003 at 05:20 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    BOZ land

    Monster List

    This is the list of approved monsters to be upgraded for 3.5. Sorry, at this time I still have no plans to work on dragons yet. As for the powerful, unique beings (such as Slaad lords, Demon and Devil lords, Elemental lords, etc), we will be working on them in a seperate thread. If you want to be involved in this project, you will need to limit your choices to what can be found on this list. The list is going to be updated frequently, as either these creatures are finished being upgraded, or appear in official WotC products.

    If you have never seen the Creature Catalog, or don't know where to find our converted monsters, I suggest you go to this link. If you are not inherently familiar with what a monster is or what it does, I recommend clicking on the above link and reading up on it before you select it.

    Air Sentinel
    Aspis (counts as 3, includes Cow, Drone, and Larva)
    Assassin Bug
    Beholder-Kin from Spelljammer (counts as 3, includes Examiner, Lensman, and Watcher)
    Beholder-kin, Searechter (Marine Spectator)
    Black Troll
    Black Willow
    Blazing Bones
    Bloodworm, Giant
    Bone Weird
    Boring Grass
    Capybara, Giant
    Cave Locust
    Chimera (Undead)
    Choke Creeper
    * Demon (Miska the Wolf-Spider)
    * Demon (Queen of Chaos)
    Demon, Spider-Fiends (counts as 5, includes Kakkuu, Lycosidilith, Phisarazu, Raklupis, and Spithriku)
    Desert Wraith
    * Devil (Duke Alastor)
    * Devil (Duke Baalberith)
    * Devil (Duke Baalzephon)
    * Devil (Duke Caarcrinolaas)
    * Devil (Duke Focalor)
    * Devil (Duke Melchon)
    * Devil (Duke Zimmimar)
    * Devil (Princess of Hell- Baalphegor)
    Devil: Selm (Prince of the Possessors)
    * Dragon (Yellow)
    Elemental - Quasi-Mineral (counts as 6, includes Chamrol, Energy Pod, Glomus, Shard, Spined Shard, Trilling Crysmal)
    Elemental (Quasi-Mineral- Crystalle)
    Elfin Cat
    Faerie Fiddler
    * Fenris Wolf (scroll down - should become epic creature now)
    Garbug (counts as 2, includes Black and Violet)
    * Garm (scroll down - should become epic creature now)
    Giant Annelid
    Greater Urchin (counts as 5, includes Black, Green, Red, Silver, and Yellow)
    Hamster (Giant Space)
    Horast (Whipper Beast)
    Hungry Dead
    Illithidae, Cessirid
    Imorph (incomplete, perhaps)
    Insect Swarm
    Insectoid (counts as 5, includes Antold, Koasp, Scorpiorc, Skag, and Woblin)
    Irish Deer
    Lamia Noble
    Lammasu (Celestial)
    Larva **
    Living Steel
    Luck Eater
    Lynx (Giant)
    * Modron (Primus)
    Monkey Spider
    Musical Spirit
    Nonafel (Cat-O'-Nine-Tails)
    Nymph, Grain
    Paraelemental, Ice (counts as 4, includes Frigidarch, Iceling, Shiverbug, and Snowfury)
    Red Cap **
    Retch Plant (Globe Palm)
    Rock Troll
    Sheen (counts as 6, includes Dasher, Drifter, Flitter, Greater Walker, Render, and Walker)
    * Slaad Lord (Chourst)
    * Slaad Lord (Rennbuu)
    Soul Beckoner
    Spotted Lion
    Squirrel, Carnivorous Flying
    Steel Shadow
    Sundew, Giant
    Tiger Fly (counts as 3, includes Female, Larva, and Male)
    Troll, Giant
    Troll, Spirit
    Twilight Bloom
    Undead Beast
    Vampire Cactus
    Viper Vine
    Vodyanoi **
    Wendigo **
    Whispering Pine
    Whiz-Bang Beetle (Swarm)
    Wolf, (counts as 3, includes Dread, Stone, and Vampiric)
    Xador's Fluid
    Xantravar (Stinging Horror)
    Zombie, Sea

    * this one will probably be revised in another thread, and is included here for the sake of completeness.
    ** yeah, yeah, i know... technically something like this appears in a WotC book already. but i'm leaving it on the list... for now. might work on it, might not.
    Last edited by BOZ; Wednesday, 15th November, 2006 at 05:28 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    BOZ land

    3.5 Upgrade Guidelines

    3.5 Upgrade Guidelines

    These are the guidelines I am establishing for reviewing each CC monster. As we work with the monsters, I suggest consulting it to increase your familiarity with the rules changes. This post will also be updated as needed - please look the guidelines over and tell me if something needs to be changed or added.

    Creature Type
    Some monsters will need to have their Creature type and subtypes reassigned. For example:
    All Beasts will now be either Animals or Magical Beasts, as that type has been eliminated. If the former Beast had an intelligence of more than 2, had any supernatural or spell-like abilities, or had a bizarre appearance or habits, it should probably be a Magical Beast. If it is basically just a slightly unusual animal, then it should be an Animal. Dinosaurs and the prehistoric animals are now Animals rather than Beasts.
    The Shapechanger type has also been eliminated; figure out which creature type the former Shapechanger most resembles in its natural form, and give it that type with the Shapechanger subtype. For example, doppelgangers are now considered as Monstrous Humanoid (Shapechanger).
    The Outsider type has been most altered of the remaining creature types. All Outsiders now gain either the Extraplanar or Native subtype, depending on their origin. Some Outsiders may work better with another creature type and the Extraplanar subtype, but I think most Outsiders will stay Outsiders. Note that some other non-Outsider creatures may gain the Extraplanar subtype, the way the retriever and devourer have, and all Elementals are also Extraplanar now.
    Celestials and fiends now have special subtypes depending on their race, such as Angel, Archon, Baatezu, Eladrin, Guardinal, and Tanar’ri. Presumably, creatures like Yugoloths and Rilmani would also have their own subtype, but we have yet to see what that would be.
    Oozes have lost their bonus hit points; to make up for this, their Con scores have increased. Constructs, however, now have bonus hit points - see the MM page 307 for more info.
    Note that the Type and Subtype-related traits are no longer spelled out with each individual monster; they are now spelled out clearly in the back of the MM, so we will no longer need to paste them onto every monster listing even though they will still be listed under its Special Qualities.

    If you have it, you may want to consult page 296 in the MM for suggestions on how the creature’s size may alter the CR, ability scores, and damage from natural attacks. These things may change, if you can suggest a different value and cite examples from the MM that make sense for the monster in question. The HD and size will probably not be changing, unless you can make a good case by citing examples of other monsters in the new MM that have changed - and even then, don’t count on it!

    Not much needs to be changed here. Each monster’s land speed is also listed in squares - simply 1 square per 5 feet of its normal speed. For example, a human would be listed as 30 ft. (6 squares).

    Armor Class:
    Not much needs to be changed here. Each monster should have its touch and flat-footed AC listed now.

    Base Attack/Grapple:
    For most of the CC’s monsters, this line will need to be added or at least checked. Base Attack, of course, is calculated from the monster’s Type, Hit Dice, and Size. The Grapple bonus is calculated from the BAB, plus Str bonus, any miscellaneous (such as feats) modifiers, ans the Size modifier as follows: Colossal +16, Gargantuan +12, Huge +8, Large +4, Medium +0, Small –4, Tiny –8, Diminutive –12, Fine –16

    Attack and Full Attack:
    The old Attacks and Damage lines need to be completely rewritten. They have been combined into the Full Attack line (also accounting for any Crits that are not simply 20/x2), and the Attack line has been added for any attack actions the creature may make when it is not using the full-attack action. If the 3E version looked like this:
    * Attacks: Bite +6 melee
    * Damage: Bite 2d6+2 melee
    it would now look like this:
    * Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (2d6+2)

    Special Attacks and Special Qualities:
    Not much may have changed here, although some text blocks may need to be rewritten to be more like the abilities found in the new MM. Some things we do need to note:
    Damage Reduction has been altered. Any creature that has it already (or any ability such as Half Damage From Slashing or Piercing) will probably have to have it altered to conform to the new standards. Most monsters do not have a DR above 15, though the overall effect of it has been altered - most DR is not simply overcome by magic weapons! I will need to consult the monster’s original entry, and compare it to similar monsters with DR to decide how its DR should protect it. I am also considering (for the sake of preserving the true value of magic weapons of greater than +1 value) keeping DRs against magic to be specific if the original text stated a +2 or +3 weapon was needed to hit. For example, if the monster in previous editions could only be hit by +2 weapons or silver, I might now give it DR 10/magic (+2) or silver.
    Many spells have changed. Please be aware of this when reviewing and assigning spell-like abilities to a monster - I’m not going to list these changes here!
    All saving throw DC’s should be checked with the information on MM page 300. I will fully admit that I did not always know which stat applied to the DC!
    Creatures that had Blindsight may now have Blindsight or Blindsense. Not that any creature that has no eyes, or should be able to “see” without its eyes, should have one of these qualities.

    The assigning of skills points has changed significantly and been simplified, and now fills a formula, thus:
    (X + Int modifier, minimum 1) * (HD+3)
    Now, all monsters will have at least 3 skill points - except for mindless creatures. As an example, a magical beast with an Int of 16 and 6 HD will now have 45 skill points - (2+5)*9.
    X = the following number, based on creature type: Outsider = 8; Dragon and Fey = 6; Undead = 4; Aberration, Animal, Elemental, Giant, Humanoid (classless), Magical Beast, and Monstrous Humanoid = 2. Also, note that Constructs, Oozes, Plants, and Vermin will be 2 if they are not mindless.

    New Skills & Changes:
    Alchemy is now Craft (alchemy)
    Animal Empathy no longer exists; is now only a class feature for Ranger and Druid
    Control Shape (for infected lycanthropes only; in the new MM)
    Innuendo has been merged into Bluff
    Intuit Direction has been merged into Survival
    Perform has been altered somewhat; be aware of the changes for anything that would have Perform as a skill
    Pick Pocket is now Sleight of Hand
    Read Lips has been merged into Spot
    Ride is no longer limited to one type of mount
    Scry no longer exists; I’m not quite sure what was done to it
    Wilderness Lore is now Survival

    All creatures get at least one feat now, except for Vermin, Oozes, and Constructs, although they can still have bonus feats (Constructs with an Intelligence score receive feats as other creatures). Creatures start with 1 feat, plus 1 more for every 3 Hit Dice it has - in other words, a monster with 6 HD would now have 3 feats. This means some monsters we update will gain extra feats, and some may lose some - but I don’t know about that yet for certain. At the moment, please note that CC monsters will only have feats from either the PHB or MM.

    Several new feats have been added to the PHB (many of which may not be all that useful to monsters), most of them skill buffs. These include the following (all are +2 to each skill):
    Acrobatic (Jump, Tumble)
    Agile (Balance, Escape Artist)
    Animal Affinity (Handle Animal, Ride)
    Athletic (Climb, Swim)
    Deceitful (Disguise, Forgery)
    Deft Hands (Sleight of Hand, Use Rope)
    Diligent (Appraise, Decipher Script)
    Investigator (Gather Information, Search)
    Magical Aptitude (Spellcraft, Use Magic Device)
    Negotiator (Diplomacy, Sense Motive)
    Nimble Fingers (Disable Device, Open Locks)
    Persuasive (Bluff, Intimidate)
    Self Sufficient (Heal, Survival)
    Stealthy (Hide, Move Silently)

    Other new feats:
    Augment Summoning (requires Spell Focus - Conjuration) - Grants +4 to summoned creatures Str and Con
    Improved Feint (requires Combat Expertise) - allows a feint in combat as a move action
    Diehard (requires Endurance) - you remain conscious even if below 0 hp
    Eschew Materials - cast spells without material components
    Improved Counterspell
    Improved Grapple (requires Improved Unarmed Strike) - +4 bonus on grapple checks, and you provoke no AoO
    Snatch Arrows (requires Improved Unarmed Strike) - catch a deflected ranged attack
    Natural Spell - druids can cast spells in wild shape form
    Manyshot (requires Rapid Shot, Dex 17) - can shoot more than one arrow simultaneously)
    Improved Precise Shot (requires Precise Shot, Dex 19) - ignores any partial cover or concealment
    Improved Overrun (requires Power Attack) - +4 bonus to overrun, no AoO
    Improved Shield Bash (requires Shield Proficiency) - retain shield bonus to AC when shield bashing
    Tower Shield Proficiency (requires Shield Proficiency) - no armor check penalty on attack rolls
    Greater Spell Focus - stacks an extra +1 if you have Spell Focus
    Greater Spell Penetration - +4 to defeat SR
    Two-Weapon Defense (requires Two-Weapon Fighting) - off-hand weapon grants +1 shield bonus to AC
    Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (requires Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, BAB+11, Dex 19) - gain third off-hand attack
    Greater Weapon Focus (requires Weapon Focus with weapon, Ftr level 8) - +2 on attack rolls with selected weapon
    Greater Weapon Specialization (requires Greater Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization with weapon, Ftr level 12) - +4 to damage with selected weapon
    Widen Spell - doubles spell’s area

    Other changes:
    Ambidexterity has been incorporated into Two-Weapon Fighting and no longer exists on its own
    Expertise is now Combat Expertise
    Weapon Finesse no longer applies to specific weapons or attack forms, and now applies to all of the creature’s applicable attacks
    Sunder is now Improved Sunder

    Feats in the MM:
    Ability Focus - adds +2 to the DC for a specified attack
    Awesome Blow (uh huh huh uhuh, OK, I just had to laugh at the name)
    Craft Construct (monsters probably won’t have this feat though, but this allows someone to create golems and automatons)
    Empower Spell-Like Ability
    Flyby Attack
    Improved Natural Armor
    Improved Natural Attack
    Multiweapon Fighting
    Quicken Spell-Like Ability

    Not much needs to be changed here. Just make sure the entry conforms to this information based on Size (unless there’s a good reason for it not to):
    Fine: ½ ft / 0 ft
    Diminutive: 1 ft / 0 ft
    Tiny:2 ½ ft / 0 ft
    Small: 5 ft / 5 ft
    Medium:5 ft / 5ft
    Large: 10 ft / 10 ft (5 ft if long)
    Huge: 15 ft / 15 ft (10 ft if long)
    Gargantuan: 20 ft / 20 ft (15 ft if long)
    Colossal: 30 ft or more / 30 ft or more (20 ft or more if long)

    This is just Climate/Terrain renamed. The only likely change here will be that if the creature has the Extraplanar subtype, its home plane needs to be listed in this space.

    Treasure, Alignment, and Advancement:
    There will probably be little or no changes involved in these spaces, but as always be on the lookout just in case there needs to be.

    Challenge Rating:
    It doesn’t hurt to suggest a new CR. If you wish to recalculate it, please share with me your findings, and how you came to them.

    Level Adjustment:
    I’ll be honest with you: at the moment, I have no idea how to calculate this! If you know, you’ll have to share with me so that I can learn!

    Monster’s Description and Combat Sections
    Most of this will not change at all. I may remove or add to certain sections of its description as I see fit, if I think it will help the monster’s usefulness.
    Each monster in the new MM has an italicized one-paragraph description that the DM can read to the players - I want this on the CC too, and I want you to help me write it!
    The “Characters” section for each potential playable PC race will either need to be written or rewritten, using those in the MM as an example.
    There will be no Tactics Round By Round section on the CC - although I may decide to include it if you write it for me. I am terrible at tactics, and you would laugh at me if I tried to write that myself.
    The Construction rules and costs for Constructs have changed. This now requires the new Craft Construct feat, and there are additional notes for this in the MM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    BOZ land
    ok, now that the official posts are out of the way.

    what to do next is, choose one or two monsters (as outlined above), and when we have 10 or whatever, i will begin things! don't be surprised if this doesn't happen until tomorrow... patience my friends!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Redlands CA
    Ok I have three to start.

    Astral Energy Monster
    Astral Searcher

    I think out of that we should do the swan first as a test to see if things will come out right and give us something easy at the start.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    City of Charion, Nation of Cremoria, Prime Material Plane of Areh
    Well, since you said no dragons (I am still offering to convert them to 3.5 myself though. ), here is my two choices:

    Beholder-Kin, Elder Orb

    No surprises there, right?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Golden Ammonite
    Golem, Lightning
    Bichir (Giant Lungfish)

    Should do it for now.

  8. #8
    I call smilodon!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Peoria, IL
    Guys, don't forget Skill Synergy bonuses!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    BOZ land
    in no particular order (other than what i choose to do and when), the first batch of monsters we'll be upgrading will be the following:

    Astral Energy Monster
    Astral Searcher
    Beholder-Kin, Elder Orb
    Golden Ammonite
    Golem, Lightning
    Bichir (Giant Lungfish)

    one at a time we will work on these, moving on to the next after each one is finished. if you wish to comment on something we've finished you may, but please don't move ahead of us! this can get pretty confusing pretty quickly, so please follow along as well as you can.

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