D&D 5E The Fighter Extra Feat Fallacy

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Eubani

Legend

• Oct 3, 2017

• #1

Many Posts since the release of 5e have brought up some shortcomings of the Fighter design. Raising these concerns is usually met with the sage advice "The Fighter gets two extra feats use them to fix the issue".

Other classes are out damaging the Fighter - Use your extra feats
My Fighter can't do much in the Exploration pillar - Use your extra feats
My Fighter can't do much in the Social pillar - Use your extra feats
My Non AC defences are bad - Use your extra feats
etc.

Now the first issue is obvious, you only get 2 extra feats.......well sort of. WoTC numbers showed that most games go up to 12th level meaning you get 1 extra feat half way and the second right at the end where it does not impact as much as it should. The second issue is that the Fighter sacrifices ability in the Exploration and Social Pillars to be "The Best" in Combat, so it should be ahead in combat by default not by spending it's limited resource. This is of course if feats are allowed in your game, feats being optional and all.

I am interested to hear the thoughts of others on this. Now I need to be off so I can hide from the Spellcasters Supremacy League and the "Fighters Can't Have Nice Things" arm of the Grognard Alliance.

 

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Xeviat

Hero

• Oct 3, 2017

• #2

I’m fully onboard for this. I dislike the statement “Fighters get extra feats”. It’s not helpful.

The Fighter isn’t a weak class, it’s just a little boring. It gets very little that others don’t get in exploration and social pillars. Maybe it’s for players who don’t care.

I think the best way to go with this is to rebuild the Archetypes. Level 3 could afford a ribbon, and that would go a long way to giving them something to play with when they aren’t killing people.


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cbwjm

Seb-wejem

• Oct 3, 2017

• #3

What kind of bonuses are people expecting for the fighter to be good in the exploration and social pillar? Like, if I take the noble background (history, persuasion skills) and throw a 14 in Charisma, how am I not good at the social pillar? Do I need to have something to charm someone or automatically adjust their reaction to me from hostile to friendly? Why is it that fighters need specific abilities to enhance these areas to be considered good when skills and abilities will accomplish most of what they need? Maybe that feat, gained early at level 6, would help to round them out but I really don't see fighters failing at the social/exploration pillars. Part of me thinks it might be the players failing.

 

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Krachek

Hero

• Oct 3, 2017

• #4

Fighter has access by class skill to athletic, acrobatic, survival and perception. No so bad for exploration. No feat required.

Like all other classes Fighter pc can use a solid background, with personality, flaw, bond and ideal, which are the key to do nice role play and social interact. No feat required.

Like other classes Fighter has 2 bad saves. Hopefully he has extra feat slots to take the resilient feat.

 

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Eubani

Legend

• Oct 3, 2017

• #5

Use a background is just as much a cop out as use an extra feat, everybody gets a background. The extra abilities for the other 2 pillars could be in the subclass but what we got was non mechanic BYO flavour something no other class had to suffer.

 

FlyingChihuahua

Hero

• Oct 3, 2017

• #6

Eubani said:

Use a background is just as much a cop out as use an extra feat, everybody gets a background. The extra abilities for the other 2 pillars could be in the subclass but what we got was non mechanic BYO flavour something no other class had to suffer.

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You're really finding reasons to not listen to what other people are saying.

 

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Eubani

Legend

• Oct 3, 2017

• #7

FlyingChihuahua said:

You're really finding reasons to not listen to what other people are saying.

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Not agreeing does not equate to not listening. I could turn it around and say you are really trying to find reasons to excuse poor design.

 

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The Crimson Binome

Hero

• Oct 3, 2017

• #8

Fighters don't get extra feats. They get extra Ability Score Increases, and should be evaluated within that context.

Two extra ability score increases mean that they should never be in a situation where they roll a 20 and fail a save anyway, and they can improve whichever of their ability scores they want to be more skillful with (whether that benefits the exploration or social pillar). Not accounting for those extra increases, the fighter is still a powerhouse that completely wrecks anything in the combat pillar, and can only be matched by the paladin if you have significantly fewer-than-recommended encounters in a day.

 

FlyingChihuahua

Hero

• Oct 3, 2017

• #9

Eubani said:

Not agreeing does not equate to not listening. I could turn it around and say you are really trying to find reasons to excuse poor design.

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Here's the thing though about backgrounds.

Unlike feats, they're non-optional, and a core part of character creation.

 

cmad1977

Hero

• Oct 3, 2017

• #10

Fighter are as boring or weak as the player is.


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